So, after reading these posts, it sounds like the problem is political and personal power trips getting in the way of getting the job done.

Why on earth should the press be allowed onto ANY scene???

I guess the big problem is that these people can't get the real priorities straight. Too bad -- it's the victims who will suffer from the big egos.

"Power corrupts" is right!

Sue

ICS is one of those things that sounds so very good on paper. In fact, it DOES work well. However, the problem with ICS is basically as follows:

a)it expects enough resources on hand to be able to have a "commander" and all that. We typically have three people respond during the day.

This line is utter cr$p:

"Smallest incident, at a minimum, there’s always an Incident Commander. There’s always an Incident Command Post, and there’s always a Staging Area. Largest incident: There’s still one Incident Commander, in one command post. His or her identity is known to everyone, and that person is only getting reports from, and giving orders to, a bare handful of subordinates. Each of those subordinates is getting information from, and giving orders to, three to seven subordinates.

You know what? I'd LOVE to be an IC - but you roll up, there's me an one other guy in the rescue, there's a third who rolled up in their pickup truck, and you have an entrapped person in the car - you know what? I'm not going to stand back and say "OK, I'm command, you're operations, and you're logistics" We're going to cut the car open. You can't chatter on a radio and cut a car open at the same time.





b) it expects people to recognize a single leader with ultimate incident authority

c) it expects people to react in a calm, unemotional mannner

That said, it's better to work in an ICS structure, if you can, than a mayhem model, which is pretty common.

If anyone says that ICS cannot be effectively implemented in their area, then that means someone isn't compromising. In Pinellas County, Florida (across the bay from Tampa, FL with the two major cities of St. Petersburg, and Clearwater) has over 25 independent jurisdictions. Except for St. Petersburg, the rest of the county practices "Automatic Mutual Aid", which has the closest unit respond. Also, with the ICS, they establish a "PIO" (Public Information Officer) if it is needed.

If 25 municipalities can get along in an area that is only 280 square miles, with a population of nearly 1 million (7.1 million people, and 40 square miles less than NYC), then it can be done anywhere.

Most big cities with high densities will use ICS, because of problems in coordination in the past. Also, ICS is being worked into the Amateur Radio community since we interact with those that are using it. Very nice system. 5-7 people under your "control". Very manageable.

Pinellas County Fire Current Calls

Pinellas County Statistics

We (Bucks County) have a similar policy. The incident is dispatched based on where the incident is, and the closest responders go - even across state lines. We're first-due into Milford NJ for daytime structure fires.

There probably aren't any perfect systems, but ICS at least sounds REASONABLE. In the type of incident you indicated, I would say, "Cut the crap and get the job done".

I don't have direct contact with the problems that you face on a regular basis, but when egos get in the way, everyone wants to be "boss", communications are useless, people refuse to work together, etc, and then I read afterward that the foulups caused people to die, it makes me want to pound someone.

And the responders shouldn't even have to be aware that the media are anywhere nearby. Allowing them into a disaster site is beyond ridiculous. Well.... maybe if all the victims are out and the building roof is ready to collapse, let them go in.... I CAN make exceptions!

OTOH, afterward, there wouldn't be anyone there to stick a camera and microphone in a mother's face and ask, "How do you feel about having three of your children die in that fire?" What a shame.... <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Sue

I worked with ICS in NOLA. Sometime it worked great, sometimes it didn't work at all. It all comes down to people. If the people want the system to work, it will, if they don't, it won't.