Hi,<br><br>I just saw the first 2 hour episode of Frontier House and I must say it has really caught my attention.<br><br>Warning Spoilers: If you haven't seen Frontier House be warned that some of the following has spoiler information (important revealing information that may ruin the show for you if you learned it before viewing the show).<br><br><br><br>What did I like? <br>-I liked the concept.<br>-I like that it isn't a game. It is only people against nature.<br>-I like the historical narrative.<br>-I loved watching the people realize how difficult life was in 1883.<br>-I loved how one of the pre-teen boys chose to make a latrine rather than complain about it like his sibling(s).<br>-I loved the irony that a starving homesteader family was rescued from starvation by the desendents of Native American (Indians), whose ancestors were actually driven from that very land at gunpoint by past homesteaders.<br>-And I loved Nate and Rudy Brooks. I find it amusing that the Black (African American) guys, who in some situations today would be looked down on, were actually the most likable. They were cooperative, they were compassionate, they were sociable, they never complained. Nate's confession of his love for his father had tears welling up in my eyes.<br><br>What didn't I like?<br>-I DO NOT like Mark Glen and I especially DO NOT like karen Glen. If you've seen the show then you know why. They have demonstrated several times how contradictary and contempual they are. The closest discription of them I can find is greedy and two-faced. karen offers to put the Clunes up for a few nights while they get their cabin built, but then gets offended when they say no thank you. karen gets upset when she finds out that the Clunes are getting low on food. She promptly shows off her stockpile of rations for the camera. Mark demands the Clune children take their cow off his land and milk it on their own land after they have hiked a mile in wet clothes through 1 foot of snow. After being told the cow had escaped in the night, he responds, "Well, you should have come and taken it back." How could they have known the cow had escaped until they woke up in the morning? There are too many reasons to list why I didn't like Mark and karen.<br>-I do not like how every other time we see Adrienne Clune, she is crying over really small things. Example: She can't wear make-up.<br>-I do not like Gorden Clune's complaining. I really do think he and Adrienne are spoiled by their pampered, wealthy, Southern California lifestyles.<br>-I do not like the Clune's teenage girls' uncooperativeness. They were told to leave all modern items behind, yet they smuggled make-up in, thinking that no one would notice them wearing it.<br>-I do not like the homesteaders being provided with Russian made rifles. I don't think that is very authentic.<br><br>Expect more as the other episodes air.<br><br>Thanks and feel free to comment.

I only caught the end of it. I wished I had payed closer attention to the TV listings. I'll have to catch it on a repeat.<br><br>I, too, was a bit put off by the Glen's open distaste for the Clunes. I know there's likely some creative editing being done by the produces and that the Clunes may have earned it, besides their general spoiled lifestyles. And Karen Glen may regret her desire to have them ask ("beg") for help in her desire to true to the frontier times. What goes around, comes around.<br><br>The cow milking episode had me baffled. Why the heck did the Clunes send their daughters out in the snow storm with no clothes, only blankets? I know their clothes were wet from the wash, but come on! Even wet clothes would have been better if they were wool, which I don't know if they were or not. Why not go yourself? I know it's their daughters' responsibility, but a freak snow storm in June would cause me to think twice before I turn out my children to walk a mile in the snow. And why did they bring pails to milk the cows at the other homestead. Go get the cows and bring them home, then milk them. <br><br>Your assesment of the Brooks is right on the mark. In the true frontier, they would have likely been the ones that received the least amount of help, if any. I imagined that the attitude of the Glen's would have been more pervasive, especially towards colored people.<br><br>It was truly telling that it was Nate who helped the girls when he approached the Glen's for a visit, while Mark and Karen were warm inside their cabin.<br><br>The preview of the next episode shows that the Clunes are in real trouble with lask of food. It makes me wonder when the rpoducers will pull the plug. 150 years ago, families dtarved and suffered from starvation. I know they want to make the experience real, but not at the risk of harming the participants, specially the children.<br><br>One has to remember that this experiment is not truly "true to life." Yes, the hardships and lifestyles are modeled correctly. But the participants do not have the same lifetime experience as the real settlers. Certain daily tasiks that would have been a common routine for men, woman and children of the time, must be learned new for the first time. Back then, adapting to the rigors of the wilderness was not such a huge abyss as it is today for the participants.

I found the show another "reality" program-SURVIVOR meets TOMBSTONE; complete with personal coflict in case the excitement of a Yuppie Irish Angeleno using a sponge for toilet sanitation wears thin ( ouch.) Want real reality? People worldwide live this way; Alaskan homesteaders, the poor of Appalachia, Dine' traditionals fighting to maintain their culture against Black Mesa, People worldwide in refuge camps without any sanitation, indigenous people trying to balance contact with the "modern world" with ancient cultural values. The cow was probably milked so she could walk back. Unlike the slasher movies where the black guy gets killed first, Im betting on the Brooks. One of the unsung sheriffs was a black who eschewed firearms. He carried a ready supply of select stones. He was known to drop troublemakers with well directed head shots.

Hi Guys,<br><br>I have to agree with Wayne, the Glens and the Clunes were both a very unlikable bunch. The Clunes seemed to be the "its all about me" types and the Glens seemed to be the "its all about me, beating them" types. It is almost like the Glens were trying to get the tribal council to vote the Clunes off the island. ;^) I see a feud brewing there. <br><br>The Brooks were very likeable. They are the kinds of guys that I would like to have alone in a tough situation. Of course, they don't have any women in their party yet. It will be interesting to see how thing change when Nate's fiancé shows up. What does Neanderthal always say: Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman. ;^)<br><br>I hope they start spending more time on how life really was in the 1800s and less time to how inadequate these families are. After all, a few weeks training is hardly a substitute for growing up in that environment. Just think what it would be like for 1800 people to be relocated to 2002 Manhattan. If nothing else this may be a good study in how to deal with the different personalities of people you may get stranded with some day. Not every survival situation will be just you alone against the elements. <br><br>David Koelzer<br><br>

I liked the fact that the "Native American whose ancestors were actually driven from that very land at gunpoint by past homesteaders" showed them how to skin out the deer using what looked very much like a $450 Randall knife.<br><br>

Hi Guys,<br><br>Just finished watching the latest Frontier House episodes. It was better than I thought it was going to be. Rather than just focusing on the interfamily squabbles they stated to get into the mechanics of how frontier people survived and made a living. It was interesting to see the economics of how valuable and expensive live stock was. <br><br>The Clunes really surprised me. I thought they would have packed up and caught the first stage home by now but they have really gotten their act together an are prospering and even enjoying they experience. Adrienne, who I thought was going to be a emotional wreck, has created her own bakery business and putting out some lovely baked goods from the most primitive of kitchens. The wedding cake she create was incredible especially compared with the monstrosity Karen created. It was also telling to see how Karen who had faulted the Clones about not asking for help, would not herself ask for a single egg but sent her daughter to beg for an egg. Gordon surprised me as well when he set up his own still. What a fantastically brilliant idea. The Clunes will become rich selling booze, while other will be trying to just get by with their cows and chickens. <br><br>I don't know why the women were complaining about not having makeup. I think they all looked quite good without it. I find the healtly honest glow they got from living outdoors is far more attractive than gobs of paint smeared on their faces. <br><br>It was also interesting to see how much weight all the guys had dropped. I thought Gorden was looking like a skeleton and was surprised when the Marine Doc said he was fine but just suffering from dehydration. That is a good lesson to remember about how important it is to drinking enough water. <br><br>On the other hand Karen Glen scares me. She has a serious god complex and is quick to pass judgment on anyone that does not follow her self-imposed "rules" and don't things the "right" way. She even claimed to be doing the moral thing and will have a clear conscience when she talks with here preacher back home. ??? Did I miss something? Was Karen always religious or just become religious when it became convenient so as to condemn others?<br><br>So who would I want to be stranded with in a mountain pass as an early winter's snow fall blocks our way?<br><br>I think Gordon is a real survivor. He would not let any thing get in the way of his survival or the survival of his family. But on the other hand I think he would have no problem dumping me in a second if he thought it would better his chances. <br><br>I think Karen Glen is a survivor too but I would be trying to strangle her after the first day. Talk about a "contentious and angry woman". Mark Glen should get the Saint award but Saints to often become martyrs. <br><br>Of the bunch Nate and Rudy Brooks would be the easiest to get along with when things go bad. And if they had the skill and strength to build their own log cabin then they would be worth their weight in Altoids boxes. <br><br>I don't know about the teenagers. They seem like bottomless food holes. But being young they would be tender and delicious. ;^)<br><br>Have fun<br>David Koelzer<br>

[censored] sodbusters!

I love watching the Clunes and the Glenns make complete @$$3$ out of themselves. If this were really 1883 they would have killed each other off and done a favor for the rest of the world gene pool. I really hope this show has an effect on how people look at the members of these families in their real lives. I hope people can see them for the ugly people they are. I hope Gordon Clune's business partners see him for the criminal he is. Maybe they will realize he would finacially cut-their throats the first chance he gets. I hope the parents of the students that attend both karen and Mark Glenn's classes will see them for the disfunctional people they are. If karen is a registered nurse and I were dying, I say let me die. I don't want that evil woman touching me or even be in the same room with me. <br><br>It's funny how the rich family becomes what most see as red-neck criminals. Making moonshine is makes the Clunes equal to today's drug dealers and cartels. I do have to agree that it is backwards thinking to allow alcohol production without a license, but not allow hunting. Both are illegal, but one is allowed. What does that say? However I think the producers may have something in store for the Clunes in terms of the long arm of the law. At least that's what I'm hoping.

>>>But being young they would be tender and delicious. ;^)<br><br>LOL !!!!!!<br><br>I have to agree that I would want to team up with Nate and his dad if I were in trouble. I went to the http://www.pbs.org web site and read the families biographies. Nates is especially telling...<br><br>"He is an Outward Bound instructor, has had medical training as a Wilderness First Responder, and spent a year living in the rough as a volunteer in Namibia, Africa. Nate also grew up on a self-sufficient farm in California, ..."<br><br>His father, Rudy, biography is telling as well...<br><br>"his youngest son build a home on the frontier. Life on the frontier reminds him of growing up on his parents' farm in rural California during the 1940s, he says. His father had built their house by hand, and the family lived without electricity or paved roads, and had to dig a well for fresh water. "<br><br>Perhaps that's why the problems they face are just bumps on the road instead of mountains to cross.

It's amazing how the stress of survival, even with camera crews and modern homes less than a day away, can cause peoples emotions and thought processes to take extreem changes. The Glen's marriage is essentially over. But one could likely guess it wasn't much of a marriage anyway. Karen even confessed that "you never love as much in the second marriage as you di in your first." So the stress likely brought all of that to the forefront as there is no place to hide from each other.<br><br>I wouldn't be so hard on the Clunes or the producers regarding the still. He's not selling it. He sips a bit for himself but trades most of it with the mercantile merchant, but I'm sure it's not going any further than that. (well... maybe the producer took a draw <s>.)<br><br>Technically, it's breaking the law. And perhaps he should be fined or put on probation for it. But I wouldn't call him a moonshiner and I wouldn'e equate him with drug dealers. At least that's my opinion.<br><br>I also think the settlers should have been given an excemption to hunt. Again, wouldn't equate that with poaching even though technically it is. But in 1880, the settlers would have tried their hand at hunting to suppliment their food supply. Plus that would have gotten Mark Glen out of the homestead for a day or two, which might have saved his marriage!<br><br>From the tenor of your post I can tell that we are likely very far appart on this moonshine issue. So be it. I'm not posting this as an effort to change your mind or to justify their actions. I just think it fits with objectives of the show and should be allowable. <br><br>What would have been real intersting is if the producers staged a raid, let's say a week before the end of their stay, and hauls Gordon's butt to jail to wait for the "hangin' judge." That would have left Adrianne and the children to fend for themselves. No that would be an interesting lesson to learn.

I was talking with my parents about the show and they don't know what the big deal is. My father grew up on a farm and it was not until he was a teenager that they got electricity and even then they were not part of the grid but rather used wind power and batteries to power their house and barns. His school was a one room school house. They would bring a potato to school in the morning, place it in the hot coals of the stove and have a baked potato for lunch. Now our local high school does not have a cafeteria but rather a "Food Court" and the kids still complain about the food!. And my mother had plenty of stories about late night visits to the out house when she was a girl. <br><br>The funniest part is my parents are not from Montana or Alaska. They grew up in Nebraska not 100 miles from Kansas City. Shows how much and how fast things have changed. <br><br>DK<br>

I'm "making" my kids watch the show. For the most art, their comments are limited to "wow" and "Oh. no!" Of course, they do not have enough years on them to provide an accurate frame of reference on how recently this life style was the norm.<br><br>Heck! I can't even impress upon them on how much has changed from my generation, and we had it easy.<br><br>One family black and white TV<br>One family telephone (not cordless)<br>No video games<br>No VCR tapes<br>No ATMs<br>No microwave ovens<br>No Internet!!!!<br>and so on ...<br><br>And I had it easy growing up in a middle-class family. There were many that did not have as much as I did. I alwayd had food, clothing, education, etc.<br><br>What I have a hard time fathoming is trying to think ahead to my childrens childrens' generation (grandcildren to be) and what will the world be like then. If my grandmother witnessed the advent of telephones and electricity in the home, cars and jet plane travel, etc. What wonders exist on the horizon for my children and grandchildren?

You are forcing your kids to watch TV!!! How can you live with yourself?. I should turn you into the Child Welfare Office. <br><br>Try as you might, I am sure they won't get it until they have children of their own and start telling them how hard they had it back in 2010. How they had to push buttons with their fingers to change media tunnels on the HolographicTV and how they had to ride their hover scooters to school every day up a .01% grade both ways in 70° weather under skies that were sometimes partly cloudy and how they had to use their teeth to chew the soilent-green dogs that came ten to a package while the soy buns came in eights. (some things never change)<br><br>DK

How do you explain bursting out loud laughing at soilent-green dogs 10 to a pack and soy buns 8 to a pack when you are supposed to be working?

I take it back. He's a weasel.<br><br>The trading for food with 21st century folks was a stretch, but they were hungrey and the traded for period food types, albeit out of season. But the secreted bedspring and the feable attempt to justify it, and the inability to accept the experts' opinion that they would not have made it, pushed me over the edge on my judgement against him.

Yes , he's a weasel!<br><br>yet, you might be wrong in thinking that he wouldn't have made it. Here's one likely scenario that might have him and his whole familey getting through the winter. He hunts instead of farms during the summer, Probably "hunts" some of the free-range cattle while he's at it, Lays in bunches of jerky and bread, and moonshine and ammo. Doesn't think about firewood adequately or food for his livestock. Early in the winter he can't feed his livestock adequately so he eats them or converts them to jerky. Mid winter he runs out of firewood and starts to burn his out-buildings which he no longer needs since his livestock is gone. Late winter outbuildings are gone and jerky is running thin so he takes his ammo and appropriates the resources of his neighbors. He and his family make it but his neighbors might not. <br><br>His shelfish, law-breaking, no-honor approach to life speaks loudly about what is worst in man. Unfortunately this characteristic is neither new nor waning. Societies have always had to recognize, accept and guard against this type of element. It is better to form a village than to attempt to make it alone. It is niave to believe that the thief and murderer is not present. The thief and murderer is within us all, some of us manage to civilize ourselves and see the longer term value of cooperation over competition.

I was nauseated when I saw the edifice in Malibu. We have these "trophy mansions" scarifying the skylines everywhere, like castles on the hill. The children are what bothered me. Notice not one dog was brought back? The butchering of the pig and chickens was a senseless lesson to a little boy. Now he is numbed in his electronic games.All of those children came back with better values. All of those children are being failed by their "parents."

>>Societies have always had to recognize, accept and guard against this type of element. <<<br><br>You saw his house. That's how our society "guards against" this type. Says a lot about us, doesn't it? :-)

not all wealthy people are bad and not all bad people get wealthy.<br><br>Someone who knows how to "work the system" whichever system they are in, will thrive<br><br>Trading off between cooperation and competition in a see-sawing manor is viewed as backstabing by the victim and healthy competition and ambition by the victor.<br><br>Honor is rarely rewarded in this lifetime - hence tombstones and heaven. Weather you believe in either or not there is the internal reward of being able to look in the mirror and being trusted by those who know you.

This sounds like a cool show. It also sounds very similar to one we had up here in Canada a year or two back. It was called "A Year in the Life of a Pioneer" or something like that. There were only two couples, a middle aged couple and a newlywed couple in their twenties. I didn't get to watch the whole series but did enjoy what I did see. <br><br>Your PBS show sounds a whole lot more involved, like there is a whole town there. <br><br>I think "A year in the life of..." was broadcast on the Life Channel and now they are broadcasting another show along the same lines only its a group of men paddling a freight canoe from somewhere in Ontario up to James Bay (Hudson Bay). They are supposed to be recreating the travels of what we in Canada call the "Voyageurs", a group of French Fur traders from the 17 and 18 hundreds. <br><br>

Ironbird, There is a fun book on birchbark canoes by McPhee alled THE SAGA OF THE BIRCHBARCK CANOE. Don't forget to wear your Toque when you watch the series!