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#58287 - 01/17/06 02:30 PM Re: H5N1 & Mutations
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I believe there are much more effective, economically sound ways of avoiding infection. If epidemic outbreaks were imminent, the simplest solution is to protect the exposure points, which in the case of influenza are the mouth, nose, eyes, and other orifices. I've converted motorcyle helmets into biofilters for field expedient hazmat systems, and with a tyvek suit, established a level c protection factor (the helmet became a PAP for biologics and particulates). If you take proper precautions when doffing the equipment after being exposed (such as disinfectant wash, UV exposure, etc) then you can fairly easily avoid becoming infected.

Granted, you will look a little silly wearing a helmet or some such to work everyday (unless that is the normal course of your business), but you will be safe. You could get by with a mask and eye protection I suppose. The point is, it isn't that hard in this day and age to protect ourselves from such biological hazards if we are but willing. It certainly doesn't warrant running for your lives, or buying a gross of saran wrap and sealing up the house. They do make HEPA filter systems that can be installed in homes for fairly reasonable prices.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#58288 - 01/17/06 03:50 PM Re: H5N1 & Mutations
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Quote:
Is it so that the virus can survive around 24 hours 'outside' the body? This is what the virologists on the programme I watched have postulated.


The CDC says human influenza virus can survive 2-8 hours on non-porous surfaces. Survival time for airborne particles is probably similar, even considering the time required for aerosolized droplets to settle. I'm sure that there have been experiments where human influenza virus survived for 24 hours, so 24 hours is not an outlandish figure, although probably on the high side.

Any commercial disinfectant (check the label and follow the directions) or even a bleach solution should take care of disinfecting non-porous surfaces very nicely. Frequent and proper hand washing and avoiding touching your eyes/mouth/nose will go a long way to avoiding infection, regardless of what surfaces you have been touching.

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#58289 - 01/17/06 05:11 PM Re: H5N1 & Mutations
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm a military medical professional and can comment on a couple of issues. For starters, we are getting almost NO briefings on the avian flu, which means that the folks upstairs are not considering it serious yet, or have not formulated/selected a plan. Even my infectious disease collegues are not panicking.

In comparison, I sat in innumerable briefings about biowarfare, anthrax, smallpox, even SARS a few years back. Those were considered very real threats. I don't think avian flu has graduated to that level. It is still confined to those with intimate contact with lots of animal vectors, something that just doesn't happen in the US. If we start getting breifings, I'll try to pass them on.

My personal plan is to bug in. A few weeks in self imposed isolation with my immediate family should ensure our safety. I would expect the usual shortages (water, perishables, batteries, gas) should it hit, but I don't expect any massive infrastructure failures. My hospital would be forced to use their mass casualty plans and I'm sure I would still be working daily (probably pressed into triage), but otherwise most essential services would continue.

We as a country survived the 1918 flu, polio, HIV, SARS, and every other "mass epidemic" to come by, and I suspect we will make it through the bird flu.

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#58290 - 01/18/06 04:35 AM Re: H5N1 & Mutations
Trusbx Offline
addict

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Ed's Country
Seeing as how the pot of avian influenza is boiling over the sea in Indonesia, the medical community, ministry of health and ministry of defence here in Singapore have drawn up various contingency plans for the pandemic, should it occur.

If it does spread, chances are, we'll be one of the first places to be hit, just like SARS. ......

_________________________
Trusbx


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#58291 - 01/18/06 05:19 AM Re: H5N1 & Mutations
Anonymous
Unregistered


The flu threat will be small compared to the threat of a paniced nation. I fear unprepared scared people way more than I fear the flu. The best way to prepare is to strengthen your immune system. All of us, no matter where we live, should have several back up safe houses prepared. make plans with family members and friends. Have your home serve as a back up safe house for them and theirs for you. I have well water and food and supplies stored for several months for 5 times occupancy of my house. There are some dozen or so herbs that help boost the immune system. Buy them. Buy the seeds to grow them. I take mega doses of vitamin C and Omega-3 suppliments. Stock up your mineral bank. Your bones store minerals. When you don't eat enough minerals, your body draws from your bones. Stock up. Be as healthy as you can be.

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#58292 - 01/18/06 03:06 PM Re: H5N1 & Mutations
Woodsloafer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Upstate NewYork
The posts reccomending personel hygiene measures make a lot of sense and use of N95 masks can help during a flu outbreak. The idea that various homiopathic remidies strengthen the immune system is science fiction. There is no true scientific evidence these OTC herb suppliments provide any support for the human immune system.
The suppliment industry conned Congress into allowing the sale and advertising of these quack remedies without the FDA regulated testing required of ethical drugs.
Buy them if you like, it's your money, but no one should place any dependance on them.
_________________________
"There is nothing so frightening as ignorance in action."

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#58293 - 01/18/06 07:11 PM Re: H5N1 & Mutations
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Good nutrition is the first defense against disease, so please don't be so snotty. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Many natural remedies have been used for many, many years because they seem to work. As they are gradually investigated, there are some (so far) that HAVE been found to have elements that DO help. When school-educated doctors scoffed at using cobwebs for blood coagulation, little did they know that the cobwebs actually DO have something in them that coagulate blood.

Man tends to think he knows everything. He doesn't. And the medical theories that are currently in use are just that: theories. And they keep changing.

Sue

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#58294 - 01/18/06 11:40 PM Re: Trusbx?
PeterR Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 47
Loc: Wollongong [ 34.25S 150.52E ] ...
Agreed Trusbx.

Might I just add one factor to the comparison between previous pandemics/epidemics, and that is the vast increase in air travel.

I don't want to be a doomsdayer, but there is no doubt the sheer numbers of people flying between continents mitigate against our improved knowledge and hygiene.

There seems to be little defence against an infected [ and undetected ] air passenger. I believe there are heat detectors at a few airports which may reveal passengers carrying a high temperature.

If we agree that H5N1 can survive outside the body for up to eight hours, that timespan allows plenty of time for an unmasked carrier to spread the nasty throughout the aircraft.

Eight hours is about the flying time between Australia and Indonesia... a country of 220 million spread over hundreds of islands, with billions of chickens, an endemic bird flu problem, and absolutely no chance of imposing the necessary extermination/hygiene standards on vast numbers of poor people.

Dozens of aircraft fly between Asia and Australia every week...
Oh well...on with the preparations...
_________________________
"Serve in Love; live by Faith"

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#58295 - 01/19/06 01:50 PM Re: Trusbx?
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I'd have to disagree. Knowledge is power. If we do get a contagious strain of H5N1 started, it will transport quickly as you predict, but once it is known that the flu is on, we can all certainly take suitable precautions to limit or even elimnate exposure risk. Protocol won't occur quick enough to stop the spread of the virus, but those who aren't immediately exposed have plenty of means to reduce the risk.

There's virtually no chance of stopping the disease, but there's a lot we can do to avoid it once we know it is there. Heck, we could start implementing those measures anytime and it would significantly decrease the spread of the current influenza which is having a heyday here in Denver.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#58296 - 01/19/06 07:08 PM Re: Trusbx?
CJK Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 601
Loc: FL, USA
Want to keep people from bothering you while still staying in your house.....I forget where I read it (may have been here) but someone gave the idea of making Quarantine signs (they said to include some sort of official emblem when making it).

I know that I WOULDN"T even THINK of approaching the house. LOL

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