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#57174 - 01/03/06 06:10 AM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
urbansurvivalist Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Asheville, NC
Not necessarily. Even if it's just a lump of sand, it's possible to survive on just rainwater and fish, and maybe even some birds. You can't eat or drink the fuel, but you can use it to boil seawater for rudimentary desalination, and to cook the fish. I don't know much about fishing, but maybe the fire could also be used to attract fish at night.
And that signal fire becomes all the more important in such a situation. Even with no food or water, you may survive long enough to be rescued if you're very lucky.

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#57175 - 01/03/06 03:09 PM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
harrkev Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/05/01
Posts: 384
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Here is my take:

Your first priority is to make it to the island alive. Flotation is #1 if you can't swim the distance.

Once you arrive safely, you probably would have a difficult time living there for a couple of years (think Tom Hanks in "Castaway"). So, your #2 priority should be getting rescued. The mirror is your best bet for this. You stand a chance if making fire using natrual materials ("Castaway" again). You stand NO chance of improvising a mirror. A signal mirror can reach out 10 miles on a good day. So, to me, the signal mirror is your second priority.

You have the army survival supplies listed as #2. At some point those supplies will give out and you may die. Once again, your best shot is to get rescued, so these are less important than the mirror.

Without water, you can live 2-3 days (maybe less if you swallow a lot of salt water). So the water would be #3, to me.

The plastic sheet would be the next priority. It can be used for many things, including water collection (depends on the weather, though).

Cordage should be next. You can improvise with vines, but real cord is better.

Fishing kit would be next (at least to me).

Of course, this assumes that you are not using some things to float other things, as others have suggested. If you can float the water and fuel, and use the cord to tie those things together, then of course you should take whatever you can.

My priorities also assume that somebody will miss you and be looking for you. If this is NOT the case, then some things might change.
_________________________
--
Darwin was wrong -- I'm still alive

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#57176 - 01/03/06 05:40 PM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
urbansurvivalist Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Asheville, NC
I would say there's very little to no chance of making a fire with natural materials. I don't remember how Tom Hanks did it in castaway, but this would entail a bow drill or hand drill or other methods which are even more difficult. Using a bow drill made from scratch would take hours even for survival experts, and even that requres shoelaces or some other cordage, I doubt it could be done with natural cordage unless you're an expert in making natural cordage.

As I've said, the army kit is likely to have some tools for igniting a fire, unlike everything else on that list(most radio batteries don't have enough voltage to create a spark, and who knows if the lense from the sextant is powerful enough, or if it can easily be seperated).
It is primarily for this reason I support it's place on the list, and that it may contain fishing gear or other useful supplies. However, I would consider putting the water and the plastic sheet above it, with the army supplies as #4, since water is certainly more important than fire.

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#57177 - 01/03/06 09:42 PM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
wildcard163 Offline


Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 417
Loc: Illinois
Have you ever actually started a fire with a bow drill?
I have, after putting together the neccessary parts (au naturel) except for the string (the leather lace from my deck shoes worked just fine) during a 15 minute walk through a local park. I find it hard to believe that cordage couldn't be improvised from SOME source... did I/you/whoever leave the boat naked? By the way, for what it's worth, I wouldn't consider myself an "expert" at any given survival skill, just someone who goes to the time and effort to try them out, and practice the tougher ones until I'm comfortable with my skill level. Oh... and while we're at it, I know of two people who made fire on their first attempt with a bow drill (I took a few turns before I got there).

Troy

P.S. Hey Frenchy, pardon my mis-spellings (in parentheses) if I got that wrong.

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#57178 - 01/03/06 10:41 PM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
Omega Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 77
Sextant -as I understand they are brass , so you could make yourself a knife out of it.
Learn firemaking using bow-drill, I leant it yesterday. But you will need some good tinder. I guess you could try put some fuel on some very rotten and very dry piece of wood and it should irnite. But read about bow drilling, I used Ray Mears' book, other sources did not give me enough information (but I am not native english speaker, so it was also difficult for me to understand)

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#57179 - 01/04/06 12:48 AM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
urbansurvivalist Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Asheville, NC
You just proved my point. You said you used leather laces from your shoes as cordage for the bow drill. I'm not saying it's impossible to use natural sources as cordage for a bow drill, but it would be extremely difficult to fashion cordage with the sufficient strenth and durability necessary for a bow drill without a considerable amount of experience. And it is very likely that the person swimming to shore would not be wearing shoes, either having taken them off intentionally, lost them in the water, was not wearing shoes to begin with, or simply not wearing shoes with laces. Creating cordage from clothing is not something the average person will know how to do, or even think of doing(and it is certainly possible that they would be leaving the boat naked). Then again, the aveage person will also have no idea how to assemble and use a bow drill.
It's also very different to use a bow drill that has already been assembled, after seeing the proper use demonstrated, than making one from scratch in the field. Bow drills also require very dry tinder, which may be unavailable.

And to answer your question, no I have not started a fire with a bow drill, or even come close. I have done some research and spent some time trying to build a bow drill, using para cord and various natural materials, and come nowhere near success (I do plan on figuring it out eventually). Granted I haven't spent all that much time on it, but the fact that I've been so unsuccessful even under ideal conditions shows me that making and using a bow drill is no elementary matter, and not something most people should depend on. In fact even experts would be foolish to depend solely on the bow drill as a means of fire making, in my opinion. I remember watching the video of 'survivorman' Les Stroud making a fire with a bow drill, and it took him hours. He made the drill from scratch except for his shoelaces, one of which he broke in the process. I don't know how extensive his survival knowledge is, but it's a hell of a lot more than mine.

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#57180 - 01/05/06 03:33 AM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
Tom Hanks used a friction method, with a grooved log seated so it wouldn't move. He then put a good tinder at the bottom of said groove and rubbed another stick along the groove where it made a lot of contact. Eventually he stroked it fast enough to produce some heat to ignite a fire.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the movie was pretty heavily researched (if improbable - not impossible). The only thing I found a bit silly was the raft pulling him out of the water as the plane sank, but I suppose you have to jumpstart the story.

He made cordage from local weeds, had fish, etc.

I went through a similar exercise as this, although the test was much better stated. It was a team building test and our class was divided into teams where none of us knew the other people. We had to decide the order of what items to bring with us (out of 12). The items were clearly described, as were the parameters of the test. A small prop plane went down with your team on a partially frozen lake, where it began to sink. You only had a few minutes to get everything out and you might not get it all, so the order was important. The whole point was to get the team interacting, making decisions (good and bad) and to discuss who would likely survive the longest and why. The survival lessons were secondary here...

I remember some facts from this exercise: 1) Taking any navigational equipment (maps, compass, sextant) are largely pointless for your average Joe as it's MUCH safer to stay where you are and get rescued. 2) Alcohol isn't nearly as important as those cartoons with St. Bernards carrying a small keg around their necks led us to believe <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> 3) Even a small understanding of survival principles can make you a team leader rather quickly.

My guess is that this is to "get you thinking" and to have you explain your choices. Perhaps some answers aren't necessarily wrong if they are explained properly. But it seems to me that this "test" they gave you isn't well done.
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#57181 - 01/05/06 05:57 PM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I can pretty much guarantee that, unless you are handicapped somehow, if you were to spend 15 minutes with someone who knows how to use a bow drill to make fire and watched them do it, you would be able to reproduce successful results at will, depending on your availability of supplies.

Bowdrilling seems to be one of those things that is best mentored. You can develop the skill independently, but it takes a signifcantly greater time investment.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#57182 - 01/05/06 09:53 PM Re: survival priority list - what would you take?
wildcard163 Offline


Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 417
Loc: Illinois
Heartily agreed!

Troy

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