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#5174 - 04/03/02 04:13 AM Dis/Advantages of medicine....
Anonymous
Unregistered


Doug lists acetemophin, aspirin and ibuprofin as stuff to pack in a 1st aid kit...what are the advantages and disadvantages of each? I have no known allergies.<br><br>Are Bayer, Advil and Tylenol trusty brands?

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#5175 - 04/03/02 04:46 AM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
Anonymous
Unregistered


It is my understanding that the generic equivalents of all those well known brand names are every bit as good, and they are definitely cheaper.

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#5176 - 04/03/02 06:37 AM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
Trusbx Offline
addict

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Ed's Country
Acetaminophen or Paracetamol (Tylenol) is for mild - moderate pain. It is a plain analgesic (pure pain relief)<br>Aspirin and Ibuprofen belong to the NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) group. It has anti-inflammatory properties like reduction of swelling. It also affects clotting and platelet function and aspirin itself is not a cery good analgesic. Ibuprofen is a much better analgesic. Both ibuprofen and aspirin can cause clotting problems as well as gastritis and if you have a gastric or duodenal ulcer, it may cause bleeding with prolonged use.<br><br>So consult your family physician if you are not sure.
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Trusbx


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#5177 - 04/03/02 10:25 PM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree the generics are just as good and much cheaper. Also consider Aleve (Naporoxen Sodium) as a pain releaver / anti-inflamitory. One tablet is good for 8-12 hours, longer than the 4-6 of the others.<br><br>One caution with Tylenol (or the generic). Follow the instructions EXACTLY. An overdose can be fatal. Our local news a couple of months ago had warnings about it. Aparently teens were using it to commit suicide since it is an over the counter drug and easy to get. An overdose causes liver failure. It takes 2-3 days of extreme pain for you to die. Not a good way to go in anyones book. They said unless you were treated within a few hours of ingestion the only other possibility of saving life was an immediate liver transplant.<br><br>Nasty! However, if used as instructed it is a safe and effective pain killer.<br><br>You might want to consider using gel-cap versions. I think the gel coating gives a little extra moisture protection. Also some think it makes them easyer to swallow.<br><br>Enjoy life, Mike

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#5178 - 04/04/02 02:07 PM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
Years ago, when my oldest was a wee todler, he managed to open the child proof cap on a small bottle of mixed meds my wife carries in here purse. It didn't appear that he ingested any, but we called the local ER as a precaustion and they directed us to a poison center. As my wife listed the meds, he stopped her as soon as she mentioned Tylenol and instructed us to give him Oil of Ipacac [spelling?], which caused violent vomiting for the next hour. He was so exhausted, that he literally wqas falling asleep between heaves near the end of the hour when it slowed down. <br><br>It surprised me at the time that with all of the prescription allergy meds my wife carries, it was the over the counter tylenol that caused the most concern.
_________________________
Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#5179 - 04/04/02 03:02 PM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
tfisher Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 186
Loc: Illinois, USA
I am not a doctor, I am a EMT but I would imagine that they were concerned about possible liver damage due to Tylenol overdose.<br><br>Ted Fisher, EMT I/D<br>Vermilion County Search and Rescue
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If you want the job done right call "Tactical Trackers"

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#5180 - 04/04/02 03:06 PM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
Anonymous
Unregistered


When weight and space is a problem (as in a first aid kit sized to be carried daily) I would not bother to carry comfort medications. This would rule out most pain-killers. If you want a pain-killer to make it possible to go on with a broken femur then nothing short of morphine will do. If your pain comes from something less than a broken bone then suck it up and walk on. You will have much better use of the same volume of gauze and if you need the gauze the need is much more urgent.<br><br>Other medications may be worth carrying. If you have allergies and usually carry an Epi-pen or inhaler then carry an extra by all means! These are life saving medications that you will die without if you need them. If you have a heart condition then carry some aspirins and some nitro as suggested by your physician.<br> <br>OTC medications that might actually save your life are rare. the only examples that spring to mind are those to manage your gut. Activated charcoal and syrup of ipicac both will help in cases of poisoning. But you must educate yourself on when to use which. Some pepto or Tums can keep you from dehydrating while your imune system and liver overcomes whatever is causing the diarhea. <br><br> In most situations that this forum considers there is a time-limit to the expected duration and a greater likelyhood of trauma than medical emergencies. Most illnesses will be better left untreated until the event has passed and the local hospital re-opens or you are rescued and evacuated to an operational hospital. Traumatic emergencies don't often require medications but can require an abundant supply of bandaging. I would be able to stuff between 5 and 10 sterile 4X4 bandages in the space taken up by a small bottle of aspirin. The bandages may make the difference between someone bleeding to death and making it out. The aspirin may make someone a little more comfortable after they bonk their head on the side of the plane during the unexpected landing meanwhile if they are going into shock due to internal bleeding then the aspirin will actually help them bleed out more quickly and thus limit the strain that they placed on the resources of the group. It is not all bad depending on how you look at it. <br> <br>In the more long-term situations the medical needs of a group or individual will require stronger medication. You must be educated to do more good than harm with such. If you are educated in herbology and lucky enough to be in an event where the herbs grow and in the season for them to be growing then this may help. Otherwise you need to have specific medical knowledge adequate to the accurate diagnosis and supplies adequate to the treatment of a variety of disorders. The most useful are the various anti-biotics because the symptoms of infection are fairly easily diagnosed with minimal training and the access to anti-biotics that are relatively harmless and highly effective is greater.<br><br>I would highly recommend that anyone interested in this aspect of preparedness take the time to sign up for and complete an basic EMT course and volunteer for a season or two on a local ambulance. Nothing prepares you better than experience. And while your'e at it you will be rendering a great service to your community and making some great friends.

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#5181 - 04/04/02 05:39 PM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
>>>If you are educated in herbology and lucky enough to be in an event where the herbs grow and in the season for them to be growing then this may help.<<<<br><br>Proceed with caution!<br><br>Approx. 1/2 of medications today are either directly derived from plants or are synthesised from research on herbal cures. But very few people are skilled enough to treat illnesses in the wild using herbs. <br><br>I have a Peterson Field Guide on Medicinal Plants. I bought it primarily as an identification guide when I used it to ID Sweetfern, which is not a fern BTW. I chuckle whenever I read the entries on most of the plants listed as they seem to have been used at one time or another as a cure for almost every ailment under the sun.<br><br>As I mentioned above, most of our medicines were originally derived from plants, so many of the potential uses in the wild may be valid. But it takes a lot of training and research and shared knowledge to be able to use them approprietly.<br><br>Digitalis, for an example, can be used for heart trouble, and is the basis for prescription drugs for the same. But if improperly used or dosed using the wild plant, it can be harmful or even fatal. And it's not a simple means of simply identifying the plants. Often the season, time of day collected, preparation or combiation with other plants have an effect on the herbs effectiveness. <br><br>I remember an article about an anthropologist who worked with a rainforest indian tribe, noticed an interesting plant in the "medicine" man's kit bag used to cure various ailemnts. The medicine man gave him a sample, which he forwarded to a scientist in Europe for analysis. It turned out to be very effective in killing cancerous cells of some type. So the scientest asked for more. The anthropologist asked the medicine man for more, and he refused, fearful of the intentions and/or potential results. The anthropologist took detail notes so he was able to identify the and collect more of the plant from the forest. But this sample had negative results in the lab. Something the medicine man did or how he did it had an effect on the plants effectiveness. <br><br>Sweetfern, BTW, is an astringent, which means a poltice applied to a wound will help slow or stop bleeding and aid in healing. Although I have never tried it myself so I can't vouch for its effectiveness.
_________________________
Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#5182 - 04/04/02 10:56 PM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree that it doesn't make much sense to carry aspirin, tylenol or ibuprofen for the minor aches and pains that these will relieve, when space is at such a premium in the psk, although I certainly carry them in my first aid kit. However, I do think that it is essential to carry Zithromax (azithrowmycin) which is a prescription antibotic that gives you a full cycle of treatment in 6 tablets. I also think that 8 tablets of Vicodin or Roxicet or a similar narcotic ( combined with acetomeniphen) is a hugely valuable addition. It is not morphine, but will take care of a lot of that broken bone pain for a couple of days. If you vacuum pack these as in Doug's kit, they don't take up much space and have a reasonable shelf life. You have to get a prescription, but your regular family doctor will almost certainly provide one for this purpose. Along with the prescription you could have her give you the information on the proper indications for use of these medications. I do carry two aspirin in my psk for use in a potential heart attack situation. My doctor believes that taking two aspirin at the initial signs of a heart attack may be very helpful, but this is NOT a universally accepted practice, so you should speak to a doctor you trust and sort out your feelings about that. If you do give a heart attack victim aspirin, or anything else, it is essential that emergency personnel know when and what amount was administered.<br><br>Robb

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#5183 - 04/05/02 12:33 AM Re: Dis/Advantages of medicine....
Ade Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
Hey Guys,<br><br>Thought I'd throw my two cents in.<br><br>I would give up room in the PSK to include OTC pain relievers. Having spent many a night in the woods under less than ideal circumstances (courtesy of Uncle Sam) I can attest to a need for them. I can't forsee a survival situation where they wouldn't be useful. Too many aches and pains and bumps and bruises are distracting, can keep you from sleeping, and make life just plain miserable. None of which would be helpful in a survival situation. BTW, dehydration (a very real possibilty in a survival situation) is a leading cause of aches and pains. Bad enough being thirsty, add to that just feeling like crap...<br><br>I also carry stronger stuff, but can't see taking it for a stress headache or for a sore, exhausted body. The OTC meds could be invaluable.<br><br>Andy

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