Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#51547 - 10/17/05 12:20 PM Re: Emergency Communications
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
PSK31 is a NICE mode - I play with it, and it works.

That said, the Man who coordinated the Salvation Army's Communications post Katrina came and spoke at our ARES meeting yesterday - very interesting. When he first went down, he thought he was only going to be doing Ham Comms - turns out they wanted him for ALL comms

He says the thing that went the MOST right was Winlink2000 - which is not a mode, but a system. In HF, Winlink is mostly setup to run PactorII and PactorIII, but in disasters, they usually enable Pactor I. Pactor II and III are GREAT high speed modes, but have a BIG problem - the price of the modem (figure $850 for the cheapest one!!) That said, he said it was an invaluable tool, and intends to setup a PIII PMBO/VHF relay to HF in his house ASAP (which will give NYC a full time HF PMBO)

PSK31 works - but for full fledged disaster comms is actually too slow - It will work for getting personal stuff out - but if you intend to assist others, figure PII or PIII

For a quick explaination of what the Winlink system is - picture I go into a disaster area with a radio and a computer - on the computer, I setup a POP3 and SMTP server (aka email) and hook it to the radio (HF or VHF) - the workers at the shelter/OEM/wherever can then hook their PCs to mine (aka standard network) - and hookup to the email accounts that I give them - using normal email programs like Outlook. My radio sends the message to a station OUTSIDE the disaster area - and it goes out on the internet as normal email - the message is delivered right to the person who needs it, in a way they are used to - complete with attachments!! They can reply, and it will come back the next time my radio polls for email!! In short, Winlink2000 gives us the ability to bring email into disaster areas - proved to work real well for logistics for the Salvation Army
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

Top
#51548 - 10/18/05 05:00 AM Re: Emergency Communications
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Quote:
T7H only puts out 2 W on 4xAA's.

Yep, you're right.

Top
#51549 - 10/18/05 04:52 PM Re: Emergency Communications
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
One thing I didn't see mentioned here (sorry if I missed it) was that distance usually limits who you would be able to talk to. In a disaster, if you have a ham rig and know how to use it, other hams will relay messages out of your area, thousands of miles, if necessary.

Another advantage with hams is that most of them know what they're doing.

Sue

Top
#51550 - 10/28/05 02:44 AM Re: Emergency Communications
red_jeep Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 54
Loc: Raleigh, NC
One additional point about most Amateur rigs: they can easily be modified to work outside the amateur service bands. This will probably void your warranty, and transmission outside amateur bands is only permitted by the FCC in a true emergency (imminent threat to life or property). If needed, you can talk with FRS/GMRS/MURS/VHF Marine/ HF Marine, the list goes on. About the only ones you won't be able to contact are 1) anything on a 700/800/900 MHz digital or analog conventional or trunked system: most HAM gear just won't transmit on these bands, 2) anything on the Civilian or Military VHF/UHF Air band: again, most ham gear won't do AM at these frequencies.

In short, when TSHTF, anything goes.

Disclaimer: This is for informational purposes only. I am not recommending attempt any of these procedures.

Top
#51551 - 10/28/05 03:35 AM Re: Emergency Communications
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Quote:
In short, when TSHTF, anything goes.

I wouldn't go that far myself, but mileages vary. I'd stick with an unmodified radio and use it as I'm supposed to.

Phil

Top
#51552 - 10/28/05 10:37 PM Re: Emergency Communications
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
FCC Regulation: 97.405

------------------------------------------------------------
TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE--Table of Contents

Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications

Sec. 97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur
station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention,
make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in
the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this
section, of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.

------------------------
I use an unmodified radio. It does put you in a bind, if the radio works, and you can't get attention on a frequency you know will work (i.e. intrastate police freq)

It's like being told not to take a knife into a protected reef in the keys "because you might kill a fish." Ignore the rule and you face criminal charges if caught. Follow the rule, and you very well could drown to suffer mental trauma when your equipment becomes entangled.

fish's life > your life
government rules > your life

Oh, if you successfully save yourself violating the rules, you probably won't face any charges. They like to call it "heroic" and "thinking outside the box". <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Top
#51553 - 10/31/05 01:55 AM Re: Emergency Communications
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Quote:
I use an unmodified radio. It does put you in a bind, if the radio works, and you can't get attention on a frequency you know will work (i.e. intrastate police freq)

I hear what you're saying, I read the FCC rules, and I still don't buy it. Mileages vary. My opinion, and it is only an opinion, is that if a ham has a radio modified to transmit on police frequencies and does so - even though it's to save life and limb, that ham will face criminal charges and loss of license. shrug - I'm more cautious than you.

Top
#51554 - 10/31/05 02:09 AM Re: Emergency Communications
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Quote:
Five watts does just fine with a decent antenna.

We're talking about HF, not an HT on VHF/UHF, so let me comment. Five watts in an emergency cannot be counted on for HF. Second, a decent antenna after Katrina was not to be had by the people who were living there.

My suggestion is to read After-Action Reports by people who were in the destruction zone after Katrina went through. There's one at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hfpack/message/28304
If you can't get to that, here's their comment on wattage:
Quote:
- Even 20w HF was not usable last week due to flares, etc. It took full 100w
Mobiles with decent bases to operate out of VHF range. 817's are fun, and make
decent monitoring receivers, but you cannot count on them to get through for
emergency ops. For our use, the 897 and 706 type radios were the most desired,
as they could easily switch between
bands/freqs. Paired with a 2nd-3rd gen dual band mobile (decent power,
etc) it was perfect. You could monitor multiple VHF nets or HF as needed.


Opinions vary; that's what makes horse races. But I would choose an HT for local VHF/UHF operation and never an FT-817. That an FT-817 has all HF bands and modes is not icing on the cake when you also have to carry around an workable HF antenna, a tuner, and a bag to carry all the stuff in, and with all that, you're limited to five watts on HF. Too much crap, not enough oomph.

Top
#51555 - 10/31/05 04:33 AM Re: Emergency Communications
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
Hopefully I'll never have to find out if I'm right, or you're right! If I do, I might end up dead! I'm not sure how to modify a radio with rocks and leaves!

Well, I guess if I have rocks and leaves, I can always start a signal fire. I figure 10 acres should work... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just kidding! If I remember correclty, some guy did that in one of the forest fires in the last 10 years, I just can't remember the outcome. I don't think it was favorable.

Top
#51556 - 10/31/05 05:51 PM Re: Emergency Communications
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Quote:
Well, I guess if I have rocks and leaves, I can always start a signal fire. I figure 10 acres should work...

Just kidding! If I remember correclty, some guy did that in one of the forest fires in the last 10 years, I just can't remember the outcome. I don't think it was favorable.

Well, in 2002, a woman was lost and set a signal fire that became the Rodeo/Chediski Fire. Her fire merged with one set by a local seasonal firefighter who needed some money, and they burned 450,000 acres, the worst in Arizona's written history. Both were started on much less than 10 acres. :-)

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodeo-Chediski_fire

Louise and I happened to be driving through. People in the area own animals: not just dogs and cats, but horses and cows. Getting the livestock out was a major undertaking. People were told to get out, and all the motels for miles and miles were full of refugees from the fire who didn't know if they'd have a home to go home to.

Some of the highways were so smoked in that travel was discouraged -- CB radios were very helpful getting information on whether we could get from one place to another. We also had our ham radios, which receive on emergency service frequencies, so we could monitor events and highway traffic of the fire and ambulance crews and stay out of their way.

The firefighter/arsonist got prison time, but I never found out what happened to the woman. Supposedly, she'd run out of gas and been stranded in the middle of nowhwere for a couple of days. A news helicopter covering the Rodeo fire flew around, so she set a signal fire which became the Chediski fire. C'est la vie.

Phil

Top
Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Who's Online
4 registered (Jeanette_Isabelle, brandtb, Phaedrus, Montanero), 216 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BereniceStanaway, aakanksha, 9Line, SkiSoloII, KMNPack
5293 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Area 51
by brandtb
37 minutes 48 seconds ago
New Knife
by Phaedrus
Yesterday at 11:21 PM
My Micro Blog
by Phaedrus
Yesterday at 11:19 PM
Good luck knot lanyard tutorial
by TonyE
Yesterday at 08:25 PM
Suggest me a fixed blade and a folder
by Russ
Yesterday at 06:00 PM
Gun Shot Wound Class on the Sabbath
by Russ
Yesterday at 02:44 AM
Survival Psychology
by Chisel
09/20/19 04:07 PM
MBTI personalities
by Chisel
09/20/19 02:41 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.