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#50313 - 09/26/05 08:56 AM Bug-in stove?
paulr Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 496
Most of the food I have around here (dry pasta, rice) requires cooking. I'm wondering what to do about a stove for when the power/gas is out. Basic goals:

1) It shouldn't use much storage space (I'm in a small apt). It doesn't have to be backpacking-tiny, just not huge. OTOH it should be big enough to hold a large pot for cooking pasta.

2) It shouldn't be unsafe to keep at home (gasoline scares me for this) and shouldn't require attention in storage (like adding fuel stabilizer). On the other hand, a multifuel stove CAPABLE of using gasoline could be useful.

3) It shouldn't cost too much.

Obvious candidates and their disadvantages:

1) Propane camp stove: the stove and a large propane bottle ends up pretty bulky.

2) MSR Whisperlight multifuel or equivalent: expensive, needs volatile fuel at home. OTOH I've always wanted a decent camp stove.

3) Solid fuel (Esbit) stove: fuel degrades, needs lots of stored fuel, the ones I've seen might not hold a 4 qt pot too well. OTOH they're cheap. Maybe this is worth looking into.

4) Alcohol stove: I've seen the tiny ones like you make from a soda can. Are there bigger ones that don't cost too much?

Thanks for suggestions and I wonder what the rest of you are doing for this. MRE's aren't that good a solution for 7-10 days; they take too much space, they're expensive, and if I had them at home I'd probably just use them when I'm too lazy to cook something.

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#50314 - 09/26/05 10:05 AM Re: Bug-in stove?
akabu Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 97
Loc: Brooklyn NY
This should do. http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html# The wood burner can also use Lump coal. You can also use Dry Gas, High octane Booze <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Edited by akabu (09/26/05 10:09 AM)

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#50315 - 09/26/05 03:02 PM Re: Bug-in stove?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Personally I like Kerosene.... a 1 gallon jug will last a long time in a stove, and provides a little warmth while in use.

My personal favorite is here: Kerosene stove Look for the 10 wick butterfly model... that way replacement wicks can be gotten from any decent string mop. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Information on prepping, using, caring and storing your stove can be found here: Breaking in Appliances --- Just ignore some of the politically motivated stuff if you don't agree with it <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Kerosene is also useful for heaters....

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#50316 - 09/26/05 03:06 PM Re: Bug-in stove?
Malpaso Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 817
Loc: MA
Do Coleman stoves still run on high octane unleaded gasoline?
_________________________
It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.

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#50317 - 09/26/05 03:50 PM Re: Bug-in stove?
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
If you are worried about storage space, consider the small brother of the larger Coleman camp stoves, the Coleman One Burner Duel Fuel Stove

It uses both Coleman fuel and unleaded gasoline, though I'd suggest you stick with Colman fuel which won't gum up the works as much as unleaded gasoline. This stove isn't a backpacking stove. Instead it is just a down-sized version of the big green suitcase type stoves. Mine came with a real nice plastic carrying case too.

While a lot of people out there like propane stoves, I just don't care for them. I find the Coleman gas stoves provide better flame management and higher heat. Besides, one gallon of Coleman fuel will last a long long time and its available at just about any hardware or department store (Target, Walmart, Kmart, ...).

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#50318 - 09/26/05 07:20 PM Re: Bug-in stove?
JaxMichael Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Florida
Outside magazine has a nice overview of stove options…

http://outside.away.com/outside/outsidestore/goverview/BG_STOVE.html

…along with comments by the “Gear Guy” on alcohol stoves in particular:

http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/gearguy/200208/20020805.html

http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/gearguy/200303/20030331.html

I know you said you are space limited, but I would re-consider ruling-out space for a regular gas grill. For the first 15 years of my marriage, my wife and I lived in apartments, not one bigger than 720 sq.ft., and in that time we always had a gas grill outside (regardless of the floor we lived on, first, second, or third) with one exception. That exception was when we lived for a year in a high-rise apartment building in the Washington, D.C. area (we were on the 13th floor of all things). If you’re in that situation, I understand not wanting to fuss with a full-sized grill.

Last year we lost electricity multiple times due to hurricanes, once for a few minutes shy of 72 hours (we were one of the lucky ones to get electricity back on so quick). During that time I used both my white-gas stove (MSR WhisperLite, 1980s vintage) and an iso-butane stove (MSR Rapidfire, 1990s vintage), mostly for grins because we have a Weber grill outside. I tried to teach my young son about priming a white-gas stove, but he was wisely keeping his distance. That business of priming a white-gas stove really puts people off, understandably so. I’ve never owned a Coleman white-gas stove, so I don’t know how that gets primed, but I doubt it’s much more pleasant than with an MSR. Flare-ups are the result of not priming correctly. These can be exciting if you’re too close.

Also, white gas stoves generally don’t simmer well (not a big deal with boiling pasta; a much bigger deal with cooking rice). You’ll get better simmer performance if you put a burner plate underneath the pot (e.g., I use a Backpacker Pantry Scorch Buster from REI). You can also get them to simmer better if you don’t pump too much pressure into the fuel bottle.

Having said all of this, if I were in your shoes I’d buy a Coleman propane stove with two burner units and not look back. I think there are good reasons RVs and other camping vehicles are all equipped with propane stoves: safety, ease-of-use, cleanliness.

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#50319 - 09/26/05 07:29 PM Re: Bug-in stove?
paulr Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 496
Thanks, that Coleman dual fuel stove looks very promising. What's the deal about storing fuel for it? They always say you can't store gasoline for more than a few months, and even adding stabilizers doesn't help that much. Is there a "shelf life" specified for Coleman fuel (=white gas?)? What do you do with it after it passes expiration? Can you use it in your car? Do you really feel comfortable storing a gallon of what amounts to gasoline at home indoors? I'd hate if the cans let out any fumes, both from a health/odor point of view and from a safety standpoint.

Re propane: it's not out of the question but I'm -really- short on space. 720 square feet is huge compared to this place (small studio, maybe 250 sq ft). I do like the ability to simmer since I buy rice in 25 pound sacks so there's always lots of it around here. Cooking stuff like that also requires a lot of fuel, which takes even more space, especially for propane.

The dual fuel stove doesn't look built to support much weight (8 qt pot full of rice and water, say), but I guess I could put some bricks on either side of it to hold the pot up.


Edited by paulr (09/26/05 07:44 PM)

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#50320 - 09/27/05 01:23 AM Re: Bug-in stove?
JaxMichael Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Florida
Is there a "shelf life" specified for Coleman fuel (=white gas?)?
“An un-opened container of Coleman Fuel stored in a dry area with no rapid extreme changes in temperature will remain viable for five to seven years. An opened container stored in the same area will remain viable for up to two years though will be at its best if used within a year. Coleman Propane Cylinders can be stored indefinitely in a dry area. The propane fuel inside the cylinder will not break down.” Yes, Coleman Fuel and white gas are one and the same.

What do you do with it after it passes expiration?
I take stuff like that to my city’s hazmat disposal center.

Can you use it in your car?
“Coleman fuel is basically petroleum naphtha with a bit of rust inhibitor. It has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and none of the additives found in gasoline. It has a lighter molecular weight than gasoline, kerosene and diesel fuel and cannot be used as a substitute for any of those fuels. The flammability of Coleman Fuel is comparable to gasoline but it cannot be used in gasoline engines. It will burn out the valves.”

Do you really feel comfortable storing a gallon of what amounts to gasoline at home indoors?
My wife will not permit a gallon can of gasoline inside the house, and I can’t say I disagree with her. She is okay with a small, 11oz MSR fuel bottle of white gas inside the house, though. If you’re going to store white gas inside, I would keep it inside MSR fuel bottles. They are much better made than a Coleman gas can and I trust the MSR bottles to not leak. After all, they’re made to be put under pressure and not leak. Of course, MSR fuel bottles aren’t cheap, but then we’re talking about gasoline inside a home. A couple of 33oz bottles is about a ½ gallon. I can’t imagine needing more than that and you could probably be quite happy with a single 33oz bottle.

If you do decide on the white-gas route, I’d go with the MSR WhisperLite. I’ve had mine for 20 years and it’s still a dependable little blast furnace.

p.s. The quoted material above is direct from Coleman.

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#50321 - 09/27/05 02:03 AM Re: Fuel age and storage
SheepDog Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 232
Loc: Wild Wonderful WV
Two years on an open can may very well be the official time they want you to use it by but let me assure you it will last much longer than that if stored carefully. I have used Coleman fuel that was very old (8-10 years) with out any problems. I use Nalgene or MSR type fuel storage bottles so once I open a gallon it is stored in aftermarket fuel bottles and I have never had to dispose of any of my old fuel!!
I keep careful track of fuel age by marking the cans with the date they were bought and using the oldest fuel first. But that and good storage will make it last a very long time.
_________________________
When the wolf attacks he will find that some who run with the flock are not sheep!

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#50322 - 09/27/05 02:19 AM Re: Bug-in stove?
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Great information on the Coleman fuel.

Paul R, maybe you can find a friend with a garage who would be willing to store the fuel can??

So far I have a two-burner white gas Coleman stove, the single burner white gas Coleman stove, a propane double-burner Colman stove, and a WhisperLite backpacking stove.

I just got the propane stove last spring and have been rather unimpressed with it so far. Not enough heat and much harder to regulate a simmer than I expected.

While the WhisperLite is a fine VERY COMPACT backpacking stove, it is MUCH more complicated to start. You have to put some kind of priming substance in the priming cup and light it in order to provide sufficient heat to atomize the fuel and provide a good burn. For a long time I carried a small bottle of alcohol and that worked OK, but kind of a pain. Some let a bit of liquid fuel flow into the priming cup and then light that, but it takes some practice and does generate a bit of soot on the stove. Others have suggested using fire paste.

The benefit of the one and two-burner Coleman stoves is that their special generators don't require priming, so they have MUCH easier lighting. I'm not sure if the smaller Coleman backpacking stoves have similar generators.

The other well-known characteristic with the WhisperLite is its inability to provide good simmer control. It tends to be a blowtorch or almost nothing.

The one-burner Colman stove has none of these issues, though it is defintely heavier and bigger.

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