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#47706 - 09/02/05 06:06 PM Re: Learning from Katrina...
Anonymous
Unregistered


I find it darkly amusing that people who had nothing before expect the government to "fix" everything ... yes, the situation is horrible and is going to get a lot worse before we see even a glimmer of good news, but come on - if you're willing to wait for someone else to "fix things," what right do you have to any expectations at all?

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#47707 - 09/02/05 07:24 PM Re: Learning from Katrina...the value of water
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
You surprise me. Fallout is radioactive dust. I'd have thought you could just filter it out.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#47708 - 09/03/05 01:45 AM Re: Learning from Katrina...
wyntyr Offline


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 6
Quote:
I'm not that sorry to see the punishment of the hubris, arrogance and downright stupidity of building a city in a pit at the intersection of three major bodies of water in an area that routinely gets hurricanes.

You call it punishment. I call it building a city in a major port with access to a river that runs straight north into the heart of the country. That's why NO was built in the first place. Trade. Oil comes in...goods and textiles go out. Don't blame people for being there...if it weren't for them...you're goods would cost even more than they do now.
Also, you're talking about a city that's so buried in culture, that it's hard to let go of it. Some of these families have been there for hundreds of years. Where are your people from? Can you trace back your roots and say that you were born in the same house your great-grandfather was born in? Would you care to? You'll have to forgive me if I can understand the southern mentality of family. No, I don't approve of everything that's happened... and I'd be leaving as soon as possible if I were in that situation. (I also wouldn't be just sitting there hoping that the government would "save" me.) But, I can understand why some of this has happened. I can at least understand how hard it is to leave the only place you've ever known. And that your family has revolved around for hundreds of years.

I agree that NO should have reinforced the levees decades ago. With today's technology, they should have made it so that the city could (for the most part) withstand a Cat5.

This is from the National Geographic News website.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0902_050902_katrina_levees.html

Quote:
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been building levees along the Mississippi River since the late 1800s. The artificial, reenforced soil embankments are designed to curb periodic and destructive floods.

But determining the level of protection needed versus what Congress and the public are willing to pay for isn't often easy.

Acceptable risks must be weighed, including the statistical likelihood of catastrophic events and the possible consequences if they do occur, according to U.S. Army Corps of Engineers officials.


Before you bash the system and call it punishment, look at every angle. This effects you as well as the survivors of this hurricane. Some of the refineries that supplies gas, are highly damaged. That same gas that NO (built in a pit) ships up river to the Northern States. Major cities are built on the coasts of this country so that we can import and export the goods that the country needs. I'm curious as to where you think NO should have been built. (remember: it was built with people using horses and carts before there were drills and nail guns)
That's enough of my rant. Sorry to have gone off like this.

Get ready ladies and gents...this is only going to get worse.

Wyn

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#47709 - 09/03/05 02:08 AM Re: Learning from Katrina...
groo Offline


Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 722
Loc: Florida
Welcome to the forum!

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#47710 - 09/03/05 06:27 AM Re: Learning from Katrina...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Damn you said that well.

My great great grandfather built a house on homesteaded country -- State grant land, actually -- below a wonderfull cliff face that protected it from the north. Little did he know that the cliff face housed the largest rattlesnake den in the entire area. They lived with it. Hey, I'm here. So are the snakes.

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#47711 - 09/03/05 01:54 PM Re: Learning from Katrina...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Let's look at the big picture. Regardless of why they were stranded, these are American citizens. I hear a lot of people complaining about race, etc. Honestly, I think what we're seeing is a total incompetence on the part of local and perhaps federal government. As a white fellow from a middle-class suburban neighoborhood, I'm telling you we would be SOL if the SHTF around here.

I don't think it has anything to do with race, but rather the inability for local government to put the necessary forces into action in a timely manner. No one moves until the governor makes that call and she didn't. And the governor probably waits on local government, say a loud mouth mayor, and he didn't call. By the time they realized how deep in [censored] they were, it was too late. Knowing everything they did about their city and state and how volunerable it was, they should have reacted faster. They should have asked for federal assitance to evacuate the city. And if they did, then shame on the federal gov't. President Bush declared a state of emergency on Sunday, but all that does is permit funds and resources to be given. The governor needs to ask for it in order for the resources to go into motion.

One fella on here wrote about his ex-wife thinking he was cooky about keeping a gun, knife and light by his bed. And now, she's rethinking her position. This week, my wife and I will review my emergency plan and equipment, items that until now she really hasn't been exposed to.

One last note: God bless the Second Amendment. If people don't get it now, they never will. It's not the people, it's the circumstance. If you think for one minute that the middle-class white family down the street won't cut your throat for a bag of ice, you're kidding yourself. We are all physically capable of such actions, which means it's always a possibility.

We face the possibility of a terrorist attack every day and watching NO this week, I have zero confidence in government to assit in a timely manner. And quite frankly, to some extent, it's unfair to expect them at your door in 24 hours. If it takes a week to get federal assistance, I'm glad to wrap my arms around my "arms".

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#47712 - 09/03/05 03:08 PM Re: Learning from Katrina...
amper Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 187
Loc: US
I, too, have seen something of a change in attitude from my wife concerning emergency preparations. Even in the face of 9/11, which nearly had a direct mortal impact on our family (oddly enough, it was a death in the family that saved one cousin from going to work in the WTC that day), she did not change her attitude about preparedness. One thing that made her open her eyes was when I went out to fill up her car with gas, and was unable to purchase premium fuel (her car has a turbo) at our local gas station. I ended up driving several miles away to another station, where I paid $3.58/gal to fill her car. Yesterday, I spent nearly $100 filling up both cars--this is in NJ, mind you, where gas taxes are comparatively low. Later on we're going to visit family in NYC. I can't wait to see how high gas prices are there! We both are old enough to remember the late 70's oil crisis.

All of this brings up some interesting points regarding weapon ownership and responsible handling. If all the responsible citizens are disarmed, then the only people left with weapons are the people not to be trusted with weapons. Given the complete lack of urgency the governmental agencies are displaying, it is not hard to see why New Orleans has decended into such a state. Even the Romans knew that the people must be kept fed to keep them pacified.
_________________________
Gemma Seymour @gcvrsa

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#47713 - 09/03/05 05:39 PM Re: Learning from Katrina...
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
> God bless the Second Amendment.

I suppose I'm one of the ones who doesn't get it. One of the contributing factors to this disaster is that citizens have been shooting at the people trying to help them. Guns are so common in the US that your enforcement officers must assume everyone has one. So you get treated by them as dangerous enemy. This has hampered the relief effort. For example, when workers have dropped off water, they've not wanted to stay around long enough to see it is distributed, or even to tell anyone that the supplies are there at all.

The effect of adding more guns is to escalate the fear and violence. It doesn't help.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#47714 - 09/03/05 05:56 PM Re: Learning from Katrina...
groo Offline


Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 722
Loc: Florida
You don't get it?

How would you, in a similiar situation prevent me from taking from you whatever I want? See, me and my buddies here, we're hungry. And we're thirsty. And... we're bigger than you. So, if you'll just step back, you won't have to bleed. Thanks. Have a nice day.

You can't call the police (based on some reports, you may be defending yourself from the police). And if I take what you have in this situation, you'll most likely die. So... now what? Good thing you don't have a gun... wouldn't want to escalate the violence any.


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#47715 - 09/03/05 07:29 PM Re: Learning from Katrina...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Fact: there are guns in the US. Fact: those who use them for evil are themselves evil and don't buy registered guns from a dealer. Fact: is most cases and especially when TSHTF, police and government will not be there to protect US citizens. You can call 911, but you still have to wait. How will you protect yourself and your family until the police arrive?

The good (unarmed) people of NO became victims. If the looters couldn't find guns, they would have stabbed or stoned those people to death, because that what desperation (or evil) promotes. A gun is merely a tool of the act, the same as a rock. It just happens to be much more effective.

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