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#44904 - 07/24/05 08:09 AM Lost in paradise
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#44905 - 07/24/05 10:07 AM Re: Lost in paradise
buckeye Offline
life is about the journey
Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: Ohio
While most of the details are sketchy, I take away several things:

Means of signaling (camera mirror, orange fabric) got him out of there.

Don't go hiking in unfamiliar territory, especially near dark, without being prepared for a WSS.

Think about trying again (maybe the next morning) to locate the trailhead (to your car) instead of wandering further in an unknown area ( "He hiked inland, expecting to intersect with the road"). [Not clear to me if he was looking for the road he came in on, or just any road.]

Carry water -- more than you think you'll need. [ Maybe the extra weight will keep one from wandering too far ]

I think this is a good example where having a GPS (mark waypoint on your car, hike where you want, plot your way back) could have saved him a lot of grief.


--
_________________________
Education is the best provision for old age.
~Aristotle

I have no interest in or affiliation to any of the products or services I may mention. Should I ever, I will clearly state so.

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#44906 - 07/24/05 08:27 PM Re: Lost in paradise
KyBooneFan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 233
Loc: West Kentucky
You beat me to the punch Buckeye. I was gonna say he oughta have carried a GPS with him and he could have homed in on his vehicle with no problem. Evan a basic unit, less than $100 would have accomplished this simple mission. Is it a macho thing that some people just won't accept them? I guess that these are the same people (men) that won't stop to ask for directions when traveling. I have never been able to understand that. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
"The more I carry, the less I need."

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#44907 - 07/25/05 05:06 AM Re: Lost in paradise
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I'll say it again. A GPS is a great thing when they work, but even if he only had a compass and the know how to use it, he could've avoided the problem just as well.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#44908 - 07/25/05 06:49 AM Re: Lost in paradise
KyBooneFan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 233
Loc: West Kentucky
Hang in there Baghdad Benjammin!!!!!!!!!!!
We will assume that the GPS "works" as you put it.

To be successful navigating, you need 1)compass 2)map 3)GPS. You can't beat this combination. Don't fight it. I'll eventually get you to accept a GPS for what is. The greatest invention for navigating since,.................what? You fill in the blanks.
Have a good day. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Boone
_________________________
"The more I carry, the less I need."

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#44909 - 07/25/05 10:19 AM Re: Lost in paradise
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
I don't think there's any special reason. They are an expensive technology purchase. You can get cheap ones, but that's still £80 which is a lot of money for survival equipment if you don't have the preparedness mindset. I'm guessing this guy didn't carry a $100 torch, a $200 knife etc.

And if you spend a little more you can get one that talks to a computer and lets you upload and download trails, created or displayed via a mapping program on the PC. More money gets you one that can display the map in the unit itself. More money gets you one that can auto-route. Add in the maps themselves, a colour screen and other bells and whistles and you are talking quite serious money. And you have to figure that in 12 months there will be a better model. I've wanted a GPS for years but I wanted one that could talk to my phone via Bluetooth. I eventually caved and bought a normal hand-held because I figured now my phone would never be supported. It's a hard purchase decision. It's complex.

I doubt it has anything to do with not asking for directions. That's a social thing; GPS is not a human so using one doesn't have the same stigma. There may be a feeling that it's a lot of money for something you should be able to do with map and compass alone, but even that's a minority. Most normal people just don't think they are in danger. This guy could have carried a proper signal mirror, water, and left a note saying where he was going. He could have had a map and compass. A compass doesn't get a flat battery when you need it most.
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Quality is addictive.

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#44910 - 07/25/05 12:56 PM Re: Lost in paradise
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think the one thing he should have taken with him and made the best use of, would have cost him nothing.....Common Sense.

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#44911 - 07/25/05 06:09 PM Re: Lost in paradise
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
I might throw into your list of must haves a UTM grid, and hope that the map has been pre-marked with UTM grids. Some of the higher end compasses include UTM grids.

... or maybe a Lat/Lon ruler

These tools help you convert the GPS coordinate into a point on the USGS Topo map --- and vise versa.

Though a knowledgable user can get by without a UTM grid or Lat/Long ruler - or make one in the field, it is much easier and more accurate to have a simple UTM Grid. My favorite on-line source for grids and related know-how is http://www.maptools.com .

By the way, my favorite book on use of the GPS along with other navigational tools is "GPS Land Navigation by Michael Ferguson. It's seciton on GPS selection is a bit dated, but the main instrucitonal contents are very very well done and easy to follow.

That book also has my all-time favorite illustration of magnetic declination - a map of the US (sorry Frenchy) with little compass needles showing what magnetic north is across the country. It helps me visualize the direction of the declination across the country. Most other MD maps only give the +/- degrees. Silly, but I like it.

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#44912 - 07/25/05 09:16 PM Re: Lost in paradise
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, funny enough this guy is from my old home, Austin, TX and my original home, the Big Island of Hawaii - the byline is even from my childhood hometown, Waimea.

What's _not_ funny, however, is this guy's seeming complete lack of common sense and preparation as mentioned by several others.

The article doesn't say from where he set out but both the main visitor center and the temporary kiosk at the end of the road near the active flow have very clear warnings and lists of what to bring if you want to hike near the active flows.
http://www.nps.gov/havo/visitor/lava.htm

But probably most foolish of all, the guy apparently didn't bother to ask _anyone_ familiar with the area about hiking as they most likely would have told him about how easy directions are on the Big Island as well as just how dangerous that landscape is. Because it's a geologically brand-new shield volcano with an approximately 20 degree slope running toward the ocean, all directions on the Big Island include the words 'mauka' (toward the mountain - uphill) or 'makai' (toward the sea - downhill). You may get small local differences here and there but the mauka/ makai slope will always reassert itself after a few hundred yards.

Looking at the Park Service website's map of the road, it's easy to see why he missed it if he were off by even a few degrees. But you can't exactly miss the coastline and you're walking downhill to boot! Plus the clouds are higher near the coast and more helicopters fly near the coast for sight seeing before heading 'mauka' toward the lava source. The guy would have been found inside 48 hours max if he had known to head 'makai'.

Now that having been said, whether he was upslope or down by the shore, this guy was also quite lucky that he didn't die of dehydration or that the lava, both molten or solid didn't kill him first.

I got to hike to the active center with one of the National Park USGS geologists on a special trip back in '88 with my college geology professor who had been in grad school with the USGS guy. We hiked about 4 miles in March and that terrain was truly hellish! Over 100 degrees near the ground (_without_ lava underneath - _with_ active flows underneath it was hot enough to melt the nylon strap off a backpack and turn Vibram boot soles slightly soft!) at nearly 2500 feet altitude with blasting winds most of the time and jumbled, spiky, friable lava rock underfoot all the way.

The Park website mentions the potential of lava to cause bad cuts but I don't think they go far enough in describing the danger of this. Newly cooled lava on the surface often forms 'bubbles' of basaltic obsidian, a material so sharp that they use scapel blades made of it over surgical steel blades for especially delicate surgeries such as eyes. During my hike several classmate cut nearly through the heels of their leather, reinforced hiking boots and we were taking care where we stepped. I would hate to see the potential wound that could happen to a dehydrated, profoundly exhausted man stumbling through one of those 'bubbles' of razor-sharp rock with either an arm or leg. You could very easily bleed out in minutes with one bad fall! All in all, it's some of the most brutal hiking terrain in the world.

All I can say is this guy is lucky to have made it at all and only his knowledge of signalling and perhaps of harvesting water seems to have saved him. In all other respects he seems to be lucky to have just survived.

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#44913 - 07/25/05 11:44 PM Re: Lost in paradise
KyBooneFan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 233
Loc: West Kentucky
Ken, read my LONG post 'MISPLACED PRIORITIES IN SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT' posted around 7/22. I said essentially what you have said and mentioned MAPTOOLS.COM.

I do have the grid. I'll share a tip I read about the UTM grid. If you have a map that is not gridded but has the blue ticks on the borders, fold the map and use the edge to line up with the grid marks. Mark it and then fold over the left or right side and you can arrive at the proper grid. Even without a plastic grid tool, this will put you pretty close to your actual location. At worst, you will know you are within a block 1000 meters square. Thanks for your comments.

Boone
_________________________
"The more I carry, the less I need."

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