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#44648 - 07/26/05 12:25 AM Question for city folk, non-political

Got a question for everyone who lives in a major metroplex. I avoid them like the plague, mainly becuase I can't breath very well in them and they aggrivate my claustraphobia.

I'm a fairly big guy, no matter where you measure. I have long hair, a big old beard. I've been accused of a looking like a biker, and I tan very dark, and when I do, I look very middle eastern. I really am a nice guy, but I have made people nervous.

If I have to go to these places, should I just offer the first cop I see a look in my bag? I know what it means in terms of S&S, but I don't do drugs, and if I don't have a permit, I don't carry. The heaviest thing I have is my Leatherman as a rule.

Am I likely to get myself in more trouble than I'm trying to avoid?

#44649 - 07/26/05 12:35 AM Re: Question for city folk, non-political

Now remember... don't step on the big kitty's tail, he might wake up and EAT you. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


#44650 - 07/26/05 12:58 AM Re: Question for city folk, non-political

You remind me of an idea I had years ago....

There was a piece on NPR about three, four years ago about the Humaine Society having trouble with tigers that were about to enter adolescents being dumped on their steps, I think it was mostly in Texas, but it's been a while. Aparently, someone was breeding and selling cubs without permits, and the people who bought them didn't really think about what they were doing.

My idea was, train them for police work. *manic grin* Not search, more as patrol. A tiger who is wearing body armour would make me think strongly about ceasing and desisting. Imagine the SWAT team threatening to "send in the cat!" The first time, it would not be taken seriously, but after the first few perps get eatten, well, even a crackhead can get that picture.

#44651 - 07/26/05 01:31 AM Re: Question for city folk, non-political
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
If I have to go to these places, should I just offer the first cop I see a look in my bag?

Am I likely to get myself in more trouble than I'm trying to avoid?

I think so. You are specifically drawing attention to yourself.


Edited by JohnN (07/26/05 01:32 AM)

#44652 - 07/26/05 01:56 AM Re: NYC subway and those random bag searches
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
While I'm NOT in favor of searching everybody on the street, there neccessarily have to be searches of some people out there (if profiling's the answer, then so be it, I can't think of a different/better way to "hit" more bad guys than innocent folk).

Sure there is. It's probable cause and evidence. :-)

Yes, I know it makes their job harder. But at the end of the day, they can be proud and know they took the high road while doing their job.

Let me throw this out. I'm not opposed to having different standards for national security vs police enforcement. But I think we have to have well defined rules and that we need some compensation for the liberties they take with our liberties.

For example, I could see expanded ability for national security interests to survail and investigate folks w/o reasonable cause. HOWEVER, any findings that did not specifically relate to national security must not be used against that person.

So, for example, they put Aunt May under the microscope and find out she's been she's been cheating on her social security benefits, but isn't planning on blowing up the Brooklin Bridge. After they close the case (and maybe after a waiting period like 6 months of holding the files), they throw the file through the shredder.

That leaves them open to profile people, do investigations w/o cause, etc, but they can only do something with the information in a very narrow case (national security).

It would still be pretty scary and there would still be potentials for abuse. A lot of checks and balances would need to be built in. But it's an idea.

Another example of compensation would be trade for the following:

1) ok, you get your national id cards
2) but you offer national CCW

Disclaimer - this is a bit off the cuff. there are probably holes everywhere...


#44653 - 07/26/05 04:23 AM Re: NYC subway and those random bag searches
Rick Offline

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Baltmore MD
Thanks for your input, please forgive my miss quote. I had read it was Tom who said it. If Ben said it first, than he stole it from Tom.....LOL
I live in Baltimore which isn't that big I know, but I personal would rather be throw off a train or out of an airport than give up my rights. However, this is unrealistic for most people with family and jobs they need to get too.

I believe however, if more people were willing to take a stand. About the wrong way to do things than maybe our government would come up with the right way. After all this is a Replic we live in, isnít it. We the people should be able to come together and say this is a bad idea; so why donít we.
I guess that would mean we have to care about more than just are jobs and lifestyles and give a little more of our selves.

Do you really think Ben & Tom, if alive today would say to us, give up what we put our lives, the lives of our families and children on the line for, to give us a nation where we were free of terror and terrorist namely the standing armyís of the king. I think these men understood oppression and fear for live and limb all to well. That is why we have checks and balances in our constitution; to keep our government from becoming oppressing.

America is called the home of the brave because we stand up for what is right and just. Our forefather were brave because they took a stand; we shouldn't give up those libertyís so easily cause they didn't come cheap; and once lost to us, will not come back cheaply either.

#44654 - 07/26/05 12:21 PM Re: Question for city folk, non-political
Craig Offline

Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 1784
Loc: Collegeville, PA, USA
My gut reaction is no. When I think about it, however, it's far better to prove you're "harmless" without being asked.

For instance, at my credit union, the signs say you may be asked to present your membership ID to the teller. I relieve them of having to ask for my ID by simply showing it to them with every transaction I make.

Doesn't cost me anything and saves them some breath.

If I were to enter an establishment that reserves the right to search my bag, I might very well volunteer it for searching. I have lots of first aid supplies, an Inova XO3, either a SwissTool or a Leatherman Wave, a small crowbar, gloves, and a respirator.

I would explain I was carrying the last three items in light of the London bombings. I'm tall, thin, geeky, nerdy, and I weigh 130 pounds. I'm clearly no threat, so people tend to believe me. Also, I find it difficult to lie. Cub scout oath and all that.

-- Craig

#44655 - 07/26/05 09:53 PM Re: Question for city folk, non-political

I hate reply to myself, but it looks like I'm not the only one with this idea. FoxNews had a guest talking head on from security think tank saying that these random searches were pointless, and that he observed people offering to open thier bags to the cops. He pointed out that anyone that willing to share was probably harmless.

But on second thought, I think it might be best to just wait to be asked.

#44656 - 07/26/05 10:53 PM Re: Question for city folk, non-political

That's not a good idea, that's a GREAT idea.

#44657 - 07/26/05 11:00 PM Re: NYC subway and those random bag searches

I gotta tell ya... I LOVE the trade idea <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


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