I write to condemn BIC (sometimes) Lighters.

I smoke. I love smoking. I love everything about it. I am very unpopular in some circles. I don't give a good rat's ass. I share the sentiments of the good Russian General, who upon hearing that Stalin had condemned tobacco use among his men, said 'F him, tobaccaco has been friend, food and fire to me when nothing and nobody else was." I have lit cigarettes, cigars, and pipes with everything from campfire embers to acetylene torches. (The former is more pleasurable; the latter more efficicient if your watch your eyelashes and burn up your smoke on the first drag) Hence, I think I am somewhat of an authority on starting fires -- after all, I do so some 40 times a day for sustenance, plus others for business and recreation.

I have been sitting here reading post after post on this and many other outdoor/survival forums that always seem to have in their lists "BIC lighter."

BICs suck. They have no adjustable flame. They are unreliable on the best of days. They can't take water at all, at all. They are made in France (or at least by a French company, if any of you red necks care, or anybody else is being xenophobic). The barrels are made so it is hard to tell if they are out of fluid. When they do run out (always at the most inoportune of times, as in when you are frezzing to death) if you take the little metal shield off in order to use the thing as a good old fahioned sparker a la Spark Lite, the whole damn thing falls apart (actually, just the little, bitty, tiny, INDISPENSIBLE pin that holds in the wheel falls out and drops into your left sock, or the snow, whichever is applicable). They are not childproof; if childproof, then cold hands proof. They have no chracter -- every 17 year old you see in the bar is using one.

Get a Zippo. They are worse, but by god they have character.

It is 102 degrees today. I have been without AC for 3 days. There is no end in sight. So, to put off going home and bing hot(er), I post these sentiments.

Best wishes to all, but I mean it: get something for your kit that works better than a BIC.

Thanks for listening.

I heard nicotine lowers your heat tolerance and makes you angry. Any truth to that? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

*blinks* Folks, I think we have a fully qualified substitute for Bountyhunter's wit here.

So what brands/models of lighter do you feel are most dependable?

I'd rather not carry a Zippo.

LOL

The "best lighter" thread comes up from time to time here, on CPF and bladeforums (as well as a million other places, I'm sure). I carry a Windmill (and don't smoke).

-john

CPF: The ultimate lighter?
Equipped: Best Lighter on the Market?
Bladeforums: Another I need a lighter thread

Zippos store poorly in the ol' survival kit. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

todd

Okay first of all one of the nicest guys on this forum is French so if youre going to be bashing the French, this is probably not the right place for it. You won't find much (if any) support from anyone else.

Now for the 'real' matter at hand... survival equipment, specifically lighters:

I EDC a mini Bic and and have another in my PSK. I was a pack-a-day smoker for 15 years before I quit a couple years ago and I still smoke the occasional cigar so I have lit my share of fires as well and (like any smoker) have used many different methods to do so.. even some really strange ones. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree completely that it is very difficult to tell how much fluid is left in a Bic and I also agree that when they do run out of fluid the only way to get a good spark off of the them is by removing the sheild and once you do this then they become extremely fragile. I will also add that if you use one to illuminate an area (as I often have with many lighters) or another purpose that requires maintaining a flame for more than a minute, then you're likely to melt critical componants and render it useless.

However, I don't like the Zippo much either. The Zippo solves the problems mentioned above but it has problems of its own as well. Primarily the fact that fuel seems to evaporate out of a Zippo faster than rubbing alcohol on the concrete in Las Vegas in August at 3pm. Also a Zippo does not make a very good spark thrower.

Metal matches are nice. I used to EDC one, but they have their problems too; primarily that they hold very little fuel and can not be operated one-handed.

What I would like to know is what is the answer? What is the perfect lighter? About a year ago I thought it might the Windmill Storm Proof lighters until I took one in the mountains and found out they don't react well to altitude changes and that when purging them to repair the problem you can end up losing a lot of fuel if you aren't careful.

I can tell you what I want in a lighter, I just cant find the lighter that meets my criteria. I want a lighter at least as durable as a zippo, that holds (without evaporation) as much fluid as a Mini Bic and is the size of a Mini Bic, if not smaller. I would also like it to be a good spark thrower on its own when it is out of fuel. This is not the first time I've brought this up. As a matter of fact I am following a similar thread of at BF right now hoping to eventually get leads which bring me closer to the perfect lighter.

Have smoked (everything), still smoke (tobacco) and always carry a lighter. Have for 25 years. Bics are far from my favorite, too.

It's bigger than a mini-Bic, but for about 5 years I've been buying the multi-packs at Walgreens of their store brand, which is stamped "Calico." Adjustable, visible fuel, generally reliable, cheap and a flame sufficient for lighting pipes.(If I do say so, i've got some lovely chunks of briar around the house.)

Hunting in the winter, I carry both a Zippo (checked for fuel, flint and wick before the hunt) and metal-bodied "torch" type of lighter that I picked up at a Gander Mountain a few years ago. It's been utterly reliable and can sit in my pheasant bag all off-season and still fire on the first try. Also has a fuel window. I'm pretty much a prairie sort of guy, so am not expecting altitude challenges.

Lately, grabbed a mini-Cricket at a gas station one day and found it had not the "push-button" ignition I expected on a Cricket but it has the "wheel" like a Bic and has an adjustable flame. Same size as a mini-Bic, but rectangular, not oval. If I see 'em again, I think I'll grab a few more for pre-deployment here and there.

The "Djeep" disposables aren't bad, either.

I wonder what I spend in a year on disposable lighters?

I have heard people on this and other forums knock on the Zippo, which is not perfect but is a very dependable way to make fire if you do your part. Most of probably know to carry an extra flint or two under the felt (OK I have 4) but continue to complain about the fuel situation. OK, change it I tried several fuels until I found one that I liked. I am sure that there are better fuels out there but the Ronsonol fuel does well by me.
Many are crying in their beer about Zippos evaporating the fuel out of them. OK! Up sides: makes them unaffected by altitude (within reason), non-pressurized so unlikely to grenade on you, tough and simple to fix should you ding it. Down Side: Fuel evaporates, no problem fill it up!! It takes about 20-30 seconds as you go to stuff it in your pocket in the morning. I find that if I fill mine once a week when I go to put them in my dress clothes to go to church it will always light for me. I know it’s a stupid memory trick but it makes me do it every week.
Everyone is always looking for the perfect lighter, let me tell you it does not exist!! Find a good lighter learn to use it learn to combat its weaknesses, experiment with different fuels and flints and then have a backup plan or three. Then you will be able to be confident you can make fire when you want to.

Bet your ass, what of it?

Oh [censored], you make me be serious?

Day in day out, Windmills. {Really}

Randall

Randjack, please watch the language. I went on this date once. I took a tall jewish looker named Lisa Silverman hot air ballooning over the California wine country. Our 'ship's captain' was this old Prussian who looked like Adolph Galland and I know the outline under his starched shirt was an iron cross. What I remember most, aside from Lisa nibbling on my earlobe was this bandolier of bics on his chest reminiscent of Emiliano Zapata. He said they were redundant backups in case of a flameout. I had visions of the Hindenberg disaster, the captain looked far off into the horizon no doubt remembering faster flights in a BF-262 and Lisa just kept nibbling my ear. Helmut eventually retired back to Dusseldorf, Lisa wisely married a Doctor instead of an archaeologist and I fondly look at bics and feel this nerve permanently damaged in my right earlobe twitching. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As an aside, I had a business encounter and "small talk" discussion with a TSA baggage inspector the other day.

If they (TSA) can "see" fuel in your lighter in your checked bags, they will confiscate it. It no fuel is "visible" (zippo or an opaque bic) they will return it to your bag. They are not allowed to attempt to light it to see if it contains fuel.

Comforting thought that someone making in excess of $100,000 a year came up with this policy. I feel so safe from militant Islamics now.

YMMV

Accchh! My matie! You are beginning to get into the spirit of the thing!

[color:"red"]Here's the deal: I will pay $100.00 {no [censored]} to the guy that starts a fire with a [genericly speaking] metal match with one hand! Video required. [/color]

No -- not a blast match or other aided device or a rod braced against another object - just straight metal stick. I think $100.00 is well worth the contribution to the community.

A few years back, I bought one of these for my grub box, which I used about 3 or 4 times a month in all kinds of conditions.

http://www.midwest-creative.com/Product-ButaneTorch.asp

It is not a small item, and it is not waterproof, but it is water resistant, and it has been working now without fail since I bought it. It uses a piezo electric lighter, so no flint to wear out, and it has a lock to keep it going hands free. I've lit charcoal, cigars, wood fires, even melted lead with the thing. It is what I keep in my BOB back home.

Another great tool is a Weller portable butane soldering iron. I keep one in my toolbox and have been using them for almost 20 years now. They have a torch attachment and an external flint striker in the lid which throws a good enough spark to light petroleumed cotton balls.

Both lighters are refillable. Both create a venturi flame that is fairly wind proof and much hotter and more stable than what the bic or zippo can do.

Neither of these are practical enough for a PSK, but they are definitely worthy of a BOB.

Yeah -- and this is true -- my first hot air ballon ride was commisioned through a bar in Albi, NM. We got out there at some unholy hour, and met out guy on a plateau where all the baloon folks meet on the Sandia.

The gondola was this little aluminum contraption he refered to as of a 'racing balloon'. I think the three of might have had room to fart.

The ride was great! We landed 35 miles out of range, with a 25 knot cross [that is when I figured out why he made the thing out of aluminum rather than some natural material] I think the wind drug us about a half mile on the ground before the basket hit a ridge.

I'd do it again manana, but it just wouldn't be the same.

And Chris, pardon the f'ing language.

Ben: Williams-Sanonm sells them to perfect the crust on your creme brule

randjack,
I got the video if someone will host it. It isn't that great, but I lit cotten on fire using just a BSA hotspark, SAK, and my right hand. The cotten got stuck to the hair on my knucles though and I had to take it off with my left hand when the ember started to burn. But, it was done completely one handed.

Edit: (it is a 2mb MPEG file)

Second edit:
Here it is: One handed

Okay, now I also have a 1.9mb file that shows it even better using a different method that is still completely one handed. I don't light anything, but it shows good sparks that could have easily lit more cotten.

Not sure how good this site is, but i'm trying it:
One handed spark

In "98.6 - The Art of Keeping Your Ass Alive," Cody Lundin says that fire is so important that we should always carry at least THREE way of starting it. The question of which lighter is best loses some of its urgency if you have redundancy.

P.S. - I remember my Zippo from my Army days. It really did, by God, have character.

LOL you probably should have thought that out a little more before posting! I would feel bad taking your money so easily so let me say that I suggest you resind that offer, and I will even tell you while. While it is not as easy at a Bic or a Zippo to light with one hand, It's not that difficult to hold it between the heals of your feet or to wedge it in to a split in a piece of wood (or between two rocks or about a million other places) and then strike it with one hand. Now having said that, if you still want video, I will go buy myself a brand new $2 metal match, upload the video for everyone to see and then give you an address where you can send my money. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ah .. Paul beat me to it and didn't even wedge it in to another object to hold it in place. Nice work Paul. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Very cool....nice job!

Adam

Yes Cody does say that in the book. Also noted in the book is that in his smallest kit (which is also the only kit he says he has with him at all times) he only has a disposable adjustable lighter and nothing else. No redundancy. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I suggest you buy a new Ritter mini-grip with your windfall <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

And I was going to try to hold it in my teeth. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good job.

Thanks Pete

Yep, I feel a LOT safer. These are the same dedicated, highly-trained, security "professionals" who routinely miss my Swiss Tech Utili-Key and sundry other things on the no-fly list.

"These are the same dedicated, highly-trained, security "professionals" who routinely miss ... things on the no-fly list."

I haven't flown since 9-11, and I have often wondered if the above-mentioned security people are the same minimum-wage security people that let 9-11 happen to begin with (generally speaking -- don't get your knickers in a knot), or did they unload all of them and get new dweebs at a dollar an hour more pay (+all the stuff they can confiscate)?

Bics are fine for what they are. That 75-year-old lady that survived the light plane crash with you would know how to use it to start a fire to keep you from freezing while you're unconscious.

Sue

But, you'll note that Cody clearly prefers an unnamed lighter brand other than Bic. I've found several lighters that look similar to the one he describes, but never knew what, if any, the brand is.

Since I don't smoke or light that many fires I've always figured I'd have at least three ways to start fire (lighter, sparker, magnifying glass). I don't even bother with matches these days. I tend to feel most comfortable with the sparker.

I have to admit I worry about the "complexity" of the sparklite relative to the simple rods. I worry that the wheel might not work, or the flint might not work. It seems that the rods are simpler and most likely to work - though usually requiring two hands and slightly more difficult to target the tinder.

I haven't tried to light a fire with a magnifying lens since I was a kid. Back then all we did was try to fry ants and smolder holes in dry leaves using the lens that came in Cracker Jacks. I should try it for real with the one in the PSP and see if I can get it to work.

Do any of you have experience with the old Scripto Vu Lighters? The lighter had two parts: 1. a reservoir that held liquid lighter fluid, and 2. a second reservoir (probably filled with cotton) which fed the wick. When the flame burnt low, one would press a button on the side and lighter fluid from the first reservoir would saturate the second. I think that I remember that they may not have been as windproof as Zippo lighters; but, one did not have the evaporation problem of long term storage and could see how much fuel remained. Vu Lighters can still be found on eBay.

norad45 ,
Nah, I don't want the money. I just liked the challenge. Plus since I now usually only carry a BSA hotspark on my keyring I better learn all the ways to use it. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Demand your winnings go the ETS Foundation!!!

There ya go! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What do you want for less than a buck ?!!!!!!!

O.K.
The Bic will not light when wet. Agree
The Bic is not a cool as a Zippo. Agree
If you tear apart a $1 Bic it will not work as well as an $8 Strike-Lite. (Duh)

I can buy a three pack of mini Bics for about $2 at the local grocery store. What else do you have in your kit that is that functional for less than a dollar?

A few days ago I got back from a tip to the Rockies and Yellowstone Park. I did some light day hiking. I had to fly out so I went to the TSA webpage and made sure I was following regs. TSA, to protect me, prohibits me from having a lighter in my checked or carry-on bags.

I put my Spark-Lite along with knife and other non-PC stuff in with my hiking boots in checked bagage. Could not take my match safe with strike-anywhere matches on the plane. Did include a book of matches in the carry-on as per TSA guidelines. Anyhow, after the flight and before the hikes I stopped at Wally World and bought a Bic and real matches along with other supplies.

As I was hiking the Bic was in my pocket and the matches and a Strike-Lite with tender were in my day pack. These were short, easy day hikes and I had no intention of building a fire. On this particular trip, rain gear, water bottle, insect repellent and chap stick turned out to be the most important gear I carried, but you never know.

The good thing about a Bic is that it is cheap, light weight and it will work 95+% of the time. If it does not work, plan B is the matches. Plan B fails, Plan C is the Strike-Lite.

The Bic is so cheap that tossing it before I got back on the plane was not a big concern. I flew back two days after the London Bombings, and I cannot report in truth that throwing my lighter away before the flight made me feel any safer.

Major points I am trying to make:

The Bic is cheap and light. For that reason you can aford to buy a half dozen and throw one each of your kits.

The Bic is not perfect (nothing is). If used, it should be one of multiple methods of fire starting. Of course, I would say the same about any other fire starter.

What do you want for less than a dollar?

Now that's dexterity!!! I've got to start practicing.

Troy

Did he say how?

I have $100.00 going out to Doun when they pick up the mail tommorow. Money well spent to provoke discussion.

That is exactly one of the points I was trying to get at. Thank you.

Back in the '70s, they made a lighter that had a pushbutton valve to allow fuel from the main reservoir to the wick. This way the only fuel that can evaporate is the small amount in the wick.

Very good!! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, disposable lighters are a fine thing, far better than rubbing sticks together. It is just that, given the relative importance of firemaking, I don't mind spending a little more for something infinitely more reliable as at least one of my firestarting tools. I think it is advisable that not only do you carry at least three different firestarting sources, but that they be based on different technology as well. A bic, or any butane lighter, has definite drawbacks for use in the worst possible conditions. Matches break, decay, or get wet. Flint and steel require something to ignite, and zippos run out of fuel often. The point is the more flexible you are, the greater your chances of success. A five dollar leatherman knockoff isn't that much worse than the real thing, yet you'd think the cost disparity would indicate it is.

That's true. It's been a while since I read the book but I believe his reasons for that are that it's flat and it has an adjustable flame (primarily the latter IIRC).

I have the same concerns about the sparklight and I know from previous threads that others do as well. I am a big fan of plain 'ole ferrocerium rods also but I'm not so skilled at one-handed lighting like Paul so I stick with the Spark Lite for now. Also, though I do have fears regarding the durrablility of the plastic in the Spark Lites, I haven't had one fail yet and I have used them pretty hard, dropped them many times and even modified one or two. Just the same if I could do the fancy finger work like Paul then I would probably stick with just the ferrocerium rod. The other advantage of the Spark Lite is that it is so easy to target that you can light almost anything with it. There are links in an older thread here on the forums to some videos I made about 6 months ago where I light all kinds of stuff with the Spark Lite... a piece of a cotton t-shirt, a piece of a paper towel, natural tinder of some type and a few other items as well. The main thing I remember from that experiment is that with the materials that are normally hard to light, my success in lighting them with the Spark Lite was due almost entirely to the ability to focus the spark exactly where I wanted it to be, down to within a couple milimeters. I just can't get that accurate with a knife and a small ferrocerium rod (not yet anyway).

In all fairness, the altitude issue with my Windmill lighter was pretty much it's only significant flaw and considering that I only go up in the mountains about once a year for a week or so, that is probably the best lighter for me. I like the fact that the Windmill can go on a lanyard too. I just wish it was a little smaller and I could illuminate a dark room with it. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, I carry a Zippo in my pocket, a ferro rod on my key chain, and no-name butane with adjustable flame, and a Windmill in my Fat Boy (correction: a Blast Mtch, also). If I'm carrying my briefcase kit, it's got matches, a butane, and a Spark Lite. I am paranoid about being able to make fire. Had a bad experience, once.

As I don't have any share in the BIC company, I don't really care if you like them or not. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As others pointed out, they are so cheap, small, easy to use (by anybody - no special skills/training required), works quite well very often, etc... etc.... for not having one in each kit.
(or one similar from another brand)

And for sure, they shall NOT be the only fire source in those kits.
Add Spark-lite, ferro-rod, windproof matches, Zippo lighter, metalic match, fresnel lens, butane torches... what ever you like and/or can buy, but you are absolutely right not to trust only one fire making device.

You know, Alain, the more these Yanks trash your country, the more respect and admiration I seem to develop for it. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe Bic lighters aren't the best in the world, but if I'm not mistaken, they invented the whole "cheap, disposable lighter" concept, so all these "other" options that Randjack cites wouldn't exist if it weren't for the French. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And for all the talk about alternative sources of flame, I still believe that the 99 cent disposable lighter has probably saved more lives than all the mag-flint blocks ever sold. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

BIC is low end lighter. One can't expect it to perform superbly. It has tends to flicker out in light wind. The starter is too small for my finger. The plastic is fragile and can't withstand cold temperature thus susceptable to cracking. I have the high end Brunton lighter

I guess it comes down to how good can something be that cost less then a dollar and is sold everywhere from Walmart to a gas station. Does it do all it is meant to do? For the most part, yes. Would I rely on it as my only means of fire? Not likely. Is it better then nothing? Definately!

Hold on there a moment sport. I would advise against making generalizations of any sort, including such statements as "these Yanks". I am an individual yank who has said nothing derogatory about any frenchmen, individuals or groups, or their country. There are a majority of individual yanks here who've likewise done the same.

Individuals have individual opinions, and it is just as wrong to refer to the opinions of one, or even a few as representative of the majority, or even a significant demography. Likewise, I don't give credit to the French for inventing the bic, but to a handful of scientists/engineers that happened to be in or from France that came up with the great idea.

So let's get back to the point: bics are what they are, a cheap, disposable lighter made in mass quantity that serve a specific purpose, which is to consistently provide an ignition source under most conditions for a minimal cost. They are not the end all-be all for making fire, and they and their equivalent are a deisrable item to add to any survival pack as one of many options for starting a fire. Matches are inexpensive and practical as well, and also have their limitations. I have no idea where they were invented or by whom, but I am just as glad they are available as I am for bics. Do I use either of these for making fire? Yes I do. Are there more reliable/more expensive alternatives? Yes there are. Did someone else besides an American, a Canadian, or a Frenchman invent some of these alternatives? To be sure. Does it matter one iota who came up with these ideas? Not in the least. The fact that they exist and that I can acquire them is all that matters. If Martians came to earth and gave us this neat little rock that all you had to do was wave it over a piece of wood and mutter some incantation and suddenly the wood burst into flames, I would say Hallelujah, I need one of those, and find some way to get one for myself, assuming I have the means.

I believe your final statement is a fact.

I'm pretty sure that his (randjack's) post was partially tongue in cheek, written in a way that would get a rise out of people.

Looks like he succeeded. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As far as Bics go, I carry one every day. While hunting, if my Bic conks out, I reach in my shirt pocket for my spare. If that one bites the dust, I grab the one in my outdoor PSK. If that fails, I'll use either my metal match, my treated strike-anywhere matches, or the cut-down Sparklite stored in the handle of my Becker Crewman. Sometimes I carry my stinky ol' Zippo too.

But I've never had 2 Bics fail me yet, let alone 3. And I smoked for 16 years.

Regards, Vince

" I'm pretty sure that his (randjack's) post was partially tongue in cheek, written in a way that would get a rise out of people."
____________________________________________________

Good guess -- glad you could tell. Next, let's do para cord.

A BIC, just like any other piece of equipment, has it's own operational merits and quirks. It has no adjustable flame. It has a constant flame which I like - it doesn't allow for accidental flipping to full power which singes facial hair or leak fuel at an excessive rate when the actuator is accidentally depressed. The actuator design allows for easy installation of a 4" cable tie to prohibit accidental activation.

It doesn't handle cold or water exposure well. Neither do I. Both will work extremely well when warm and dry. Both will work at reduced efficiency when cold and damp. Both are easy to dry when wet.

The BIC doesn't readily reveal how much fluid remains. On the lighter colored models, I use my light behind the barrel/fuel storage tank and I can see what's left. On the dark models, I look through the fuel window at the base of the lighter to get an idea of how much fuel remains.

My BIC lighter doesn't have any politics. I don't care where it came from as long as it's not made by slaves and/or its purchase doesn't support a PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. economy and government. Whether or not France's current politics have any merit here isn't even argueable - we're talking gear merit not political theory.

Put simply, I can live with BIC's quirks. They work well for me and fit into my lifestyle and I rely upon them as a part of my emergency gear loadout...

M

now, let's not forget whoever invented the bic style lighters, did not intend to create a survival specialized item, with all the extraordinary requirements we, ETS forumnits (sp ?), would like to have if such a device existed... .......

As for the tongue in the cheek thing, I indeed did think it was Randjack intention to put some heat around this subject....
And the proof is there : BIC can light that kind of flame too ..... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How cold are you getting that lighter??? I've carried bic's (and their immitators) in 0 and -0 weather, and the only problem I've ever had was having to warm them up if I left them in an outside pocket, 'never had the plastic break/shatter. And that being mentioned, the ONLY lighter that I've found to light consistently in severe cold is... you guessed it, a well filled Zippo. I'm having a hard time understanding all the debate... Zippo in one pocket, Bic in the other, and all the bases are covered. It can't be the expense, I've read posts extolling the virtues of an $80 flash light here, and neither lighter is big enough or heavy enough to be an issue, so come on... what's the point?

Troy

P.S. By the way, I'm a smoker, so any lighter I carry gets a regular workout, and a back-up is always at hand.

AAMOF, I don't know where Bic lighters are manufactured ... so I tried to "google" it ... I did not find China among the manufacturing countries (but it was a quick look acrooss some info sheets...)
But I found out something else ...

Do you know BIc also makes kayaks ???
see this web site .
Could these be an answer for the "Survival Vehicle" thread ???? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Bic makes windsurfers too. I own 3 of them, and sold one more. They're pretty good for a mass-produced board.

In all the posts, I didn't see anyone mention a Colibri lighter. They are rather expensive but a quality lighter with a big selection. You will find them at most tobacco stores. Take a look:

http://images.google.com/images?q=colibri+lighters&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

And remember what I said in an earlier post somewhere. Check the flint in old lighters you have stashed here and there. The flint will disintegrate over the years and literally turn to powder. FWIW.

I've had very bad luck with Colibri lighters - I've owned several and all stop working very quickly. Non have ever even made it to the refueling stage. They are very attractive lighters, but their ignition system seems to be a weak point. I wouldn't count on them in a crisis.

I have not used one myself, so I can't say ...
BUT .....

I seem to remember old treads on this forum about lighters, where more than one member exposed his problems/concerns with this kind of lighter. IIRC, it is not the panacea either.

Well, at least I didn't FLAME him <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

It was a typo; I meant "those Yanks", of course.

Seriously, I am well aware that there are about 300,000,000 US Citizens in the world, (and that a significant number of them would be surprised and/or apalled to hear themselves described as "Yankees" <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). There does seem to be, from time to time, a handful of people on this forum who not only like to bash the French, but are surprised when everyone doesn't wholeheartedly agree with them. (Apparently randjack was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek and I may have over-reacted slightly; but if I did, then it's probably the response he was looking for anyway.)

My post was not in any way aimed at the majority of Americans, and certainly not at the majority of US posters on this forum. It was merely a response to what I (mistakenly?) perceived as another example of "French-baiting". <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just another point to keep in mind...the French people aren't the French government, just like the "Yanks" aren't the U.S. government. While I truly love my country (or at least what it used to be), I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with my government, and while I may be guilty of bashing the French government in past posts, I can confidently say, that I'd rather have some of our French brethren for neighbors than most of the ones I currently have (to put up with).

Troy

By the way... how's it goin' Frenchy

Thank you for clarifying, and I think you've touched on a point I've been made aware of by being where I am now. Before I left, there were a lot of folks that thought we should just nuke the entire middle east and get rid of all the rotten apples. At the time, it seemed like an expedient solution to an obvious problem that has since gotten worse, which is that there are a lot of idiots over here who, for one reason or another, believe that killing innocent people is a perfectly acceptable act. I say a lot of people, but I do not imply by any measure that they are the majority. In fact, they are proportionately a small minority using the most extreme methods available to try and oppress a nation of decent, honest, loving people. That there faith differs from ours does not matter so much, after all, that is the basis upon which our country was created. That they are being slaughtered wholesale without the means to combat these thugs (over 25,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the start of the war, most by terrorist activity) is gut wrenching. That these people are dying because they are cooperating with us and thus keeping the majority of the conflict from reaching Americans, especially back home, ought to be motivation enough for all of us "Yanks" to get behind them and support them through the thick and thin of it all. Right or wrong, we brought this confrontation to their doorsteps, and we've made some serious mistakes that have cost these people dearly. We can correct some of the mistakes, and help make their sacrifices worthwhile, but only if we understand these people, and accept them as a nation that deserves our support. We created a vacuum here that the terrorists filled, and now we have to deal with that, together, or this mess will eventually end up in our backyards. Anyone who doesn't think that possible needs to spend a day across the border from Nogales.

I'm telling you, regardless of what you think our government is here in Iraq for, we need to make this place a big success or our children will pay a heavy price for our reluctance.

So when someone generalizes about some other group, well, you can understand my sensitivity. You can't really judge someone unless you know them. I didn't used to think that way, but I do now.

I am going to have to post something more along these lines this morning. I am feeling just too darned patriotic.

"...a significant number of them would be surprised and/or apalled to hear themselves described as 'Yankees...'"

Oddly enough, I don't mind being referred to as a "Yank" or a "Yankee" by citizens of other countries, but I think it feels a bit odd to be called one by other Americans. I was born and raised in the Rocky mountain west though, so maybe it's a geographical thing. I imagine many of our southern brothers are of the same opinion. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

Oh, good grief . . .

The technical term for those living north of the Mason Dixon line is "Them Yankee bastards . . .." But I am quite accustomed to being referred to as a Yank by my Brit friends. Gofigurebutwhocaresinthelongrunanyway.

Everybody condem the Bics because it is difficult to see how much fuel is left, and the flame cannot be adjusted. I bought a pac of some lighters that are like the Bics but don't have the problems that Bics have. You can see the fuel, the flame is adjustable and they are cheap. I bought them at Wal-Mart some time ago. I think that they were about 6 for $3.00 or something like that.The brand name is ACE. I take a couple of them in my pocket when I go hunting and they work ok. Just in case I always carry a freshly fueled Zippo, and a ferroucious rod with a piece of a hack saw blade sharpened on the other side of the teeth. Also cotton balls with Vaseline in a small zip lock bag.

I just posted a message about some lighters I bought at Wall-Mart. The brand name is ACE. Similar to the Bic but you can see the amount of fuel and also they have adjustable flame. Very cheap also, I think much less than $1.00 each. They came in a pack but I dont remember how many. May 5 or 6. Good luck

I just posted a message about some lighters I bought at Wall-Mart. The brand name is ACE. Similar to the Bic but you can see the amount of fuel and also they have adjustable flame. Very cheap also, I think much less than $1.00 each. They came in a pack but I dont remember how many. Maybe 5 or 6. Good luck