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#43745 - 07/13/05 05:07 AM Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Sure, it's a fun mental exercise to imagine what you would do, what you would take, if you had to bug out.

But really, I would consider bugging out as my drop-dead last resort. Firestorm. Chemical spill. And both of those should be temporary. I can't think of any other situation where leaving would be an improvement on staying.

SHTF? It's not likely to be just local! There are about 6.5 million people in my state, & approx. 300 million in this country. Everyone heads for the hills? It's going to be crowded up there. Probably 98% will run out of gas at the same time, at the 300-350 mile mark. The rest will have the 98% after them for their two jerry cans marked "water", and will probably end up with them having multiple caliber perforations or a single loud whoosh!

So, generally speaking, what's your plan? Under what conditions would you leave? Where would you go? Can you carry enough fuel to get there? Will THERE be any different from HERE by the time you get there?

Here, I've got shelter, food, water, ways to catch more water, firewood and I know (or suspect) which neighbors I can trust and which I probably can't.

The paranoia induced by limited food, limited fuel, limited water, and not being able to sleep so as to protect these limited assets doesn't sound like a picnic, either.

So.... what's your plan?

Sue

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#43746 - 07/13/05 05:33 AM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Your point is very well taken. I live in a city ringed by some 7 military bases, with some very nasty things there apart apart from being prime "terrorist" targets (I always put "terrorist" in quotes these days -- became I'm not, and don't anybody should be 'terrorized'). The only advantage I can see in splitting is avoiding the chaos that would follow a really nasty event. More on the level of being simply tiresome, after a while.

This community has a truly nifty flood every flood every few years with resultant loss of life, etc., etc., and the populace has proven to be remarkably resilient. But, the drumbeat of all emergency authorities in such events is STAY PUT. Do not put yourself and potential first responders at risk by getting out in it. About half of the fatalities we have had from storm events over the twenty years I have been watching it has been folks that had no business being where they were when they got killed.

In days gone by, I had to get out in the stuff when it was happening, but, thankfully, no more. I should, thus, term my 'BOB' an expanded boony survival / urban personal convenience bag. Its survival components are very unlikely to ever come into play unless I'm already out & about.

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#43747 - 07/13/05 05:47 AM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
Great mental exercise, and this is following on the heels of some of the other threads this week that have got me thinking.

*Structure Fire: Immediate evacuation with the clothes on my back and hopefully some shoes and a cell phone in my hand.

*Wildfire: Urgent evacuation (usually some advance notice) with BoB bags and car. Relocate to nearby local relatives/friends.

*Chemical Spill: Immediate evacuation uphill & upwind with clothes on my back, or shelter in place if needed.

*Natural Disaster (Flooding, Earthquake, etc.): Immediate evacuation, probably on foot, to the least unaffected local area or shelter. Eventually you will be able to access your home, if it's still standing. Take BoB's if possible.

*Local Civil Unrest: Evacuate away from population centers, possibly to a hotel or campground at least 1-2 hours away. Load car with BoB bags, self-defense, 72 hours of food/water, and camping gear.

*Terrorism: Evacuate away from population centers, probably to a remote campground or relatives/friends in another area. Load car with BoB bags, self-defense, maximum amount of food/water, and camping gear.

The one common theme I am seeing is how valuable my BoB bags and hiking boots will be. Stripped of my home and vehicle, at least I can try to hoof it somewhere safe with some minimal comfort and security. At this point I don't have any rural property, so I'd choose to "bug in" unless the circumstances required me to evacuate. First choice for evacuation would be to local relatives/friends, unless I wanted to put some distance between me and the problem. At that point I'd consider heading to a more remote area of the state and shacking up at a hotel or campground, probably with a lot of other people. Even if I did have rural property away from my area, chances are by the time I got there it would be occupied by someone else.

Nonetheless, I feel somewhat safe in my location, as I'm already away from major cities and can access millions of acres of public land within minutes. I should probably be more worried about a bear getting into my stash of energy bars and canned ravioli, to awake in the morning with no breakfast, and worse, no COFFEE! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#43748 - 07/13/05 06:07 AM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Theres a grainy black and white film considered the first great Hollywood movie. The great Train Robbery has a great chase. This has been a required ingredient in virtually every movie made since. It doesn't matter if your on horse, balloon, U-Boat or Green Mustang chasing the black Dodge. Disaster movies always show rivers of abandoned cars jammed and pointed out of the dying city with bleached skeletons inside. The road has always been the great american adventure, be it wagontrain rutts or a Jack Kerouac paperback. So smart people study movies and DON'T buy a Rambo knife, imitate Robert Redford, Brad Pitt,Anthony Hopkins, Darryl Hanna and get Bart the Bear mad, head for the hills when the Soviet Union invades your high school or break down a 9MM and make a roaring fire like agent Mulder. It's all there, all the BAD information. So, I too am staying home. Oh, one of my riding buddies is a well known african american actor. He says NEVER, EVER seperate in the scary old house and the brother always gets killed first <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

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#43749 - 07/13/05 06:16 AM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Well, I have thought about that for a long time, and this is more survivalist than survival talk, but I guess one can naturally lead to the other in extreme situations.

Given my economic situation, my limitations are that were I to need to evacuate my primary residence, I can go about as far as a tank of gas can take me, about as quickly as my vehcile will drive down the road unimpeded. About the only thing I can think of worth abandoning my home for would be imminent catastrophe, like mass invasion, chemical weapon spill (I have a chem demil plant in operation 35 miles south of me) radioactive release (I have a nuclear reservation 30 miles north of me) or strategic nuclear attack. In all cases, the chances I can escape the threat are not too good, but I think I've improved my odds better than 99% of those around me. I have picked 4 routes in different directions to different destinations that will not have traffic on them and provide me with shelter opportunites along the way should the need arise. 3 of my destinations are fortified and stocked, with reliable water sources and fairly isolated.

That is about the best I can do. It doesn't improve the odds much, and only addresses a minute survival aspect, but it was something to consider, and chance favors the prepared mind.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#43750 - 07/13/05 06:26 AM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
7k7k99 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 375
Loc: Ohio
Actually, no where to bug out to in my area -- Have only the house I'm living in and the freeway system here is mostly elevated, so in the event of say an earthquake [we do have a fault line in the midwest, not as severe as California but a fault line nonetheless] the roads in and out would be impassable should just a few bridges or overpasses collapse. My bug out bag is in the car so if I happen to be away from the house, hopefully, I can make it back home on foot where the majority of my supplies and weapons are. Would have to shelter in place, my Hyundai isn't exactly a 4WD or a Hummer. I willl do the best with what I have.

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#43751 - 07/13/05 01:23 PM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
Craig Offline


Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 1784
Loc: Collegeville, PA, USA
Methinks I'd be staying home. Bugging In, if you will.

To my mind, if my wife and me were to evacuate, shelters wouldn't take pets, and I'm not leaving behind ours. They're coming with us. If things go badly, then we die together, as a family. Pets are not disposable. Pets are friends for life.

If we were ordered from our home and were physically ejected, we'd take the pets and head to either my sister's place or my mom's.

-- Craig

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#43752 - 07/13/05 01:40 PM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I live and work in the suburbs. I decided long ago that I'm not going anywhere short of a nuclear, chemical, or biological attack or accident. I can't think of a scenario where I would need to go more than 10 miles out of town anyway, short of a full-blown WMD attack by another nation state--and just how likely is that?. Even if terrorists manage to detonate a nuke in a city the effect will be relatively localized. If I survive the blast I can tow my trailer a few miles out of the affected area and hunker down for up to two weeks. If that's not possible I'll go to one of the many shelters that are bound to be springing up all over

Heading for the hills is, IMO, romantic nonsense. While perhaps an enjoyable mental exercise it strikes me as so unlikely as to be a waste of time. (I liked Red Dawn though. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Regards, Vince

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#43753 - 07/13/05 02:00 PM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
SheepDog Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 232
Loc: Wild Wonderful WV
That sound very familiar to how our household operates. The two guardians of our “estate” are part of the family and are staying with us. When I bought my place I did so with the idea of how it would hold up to all the “normal” disaster scenarios and would rather be here than a shelter unless the dreaded TEOTWAWKI was upon us!
_________________________
When the wolf attacks he will find that some who run with the flock are not sheep!

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#43754 - 07/13/05 02:12 PM Re: Bug Out -- But to WHERE?
hillbilly Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 213
Loc: Northeast Arkansas (Central Ar...
Since I live in a semi-rural area, I might try to drive away from the main (secondary) highway. I have about 3 places in mind where we could go and campout within about 1 hour away. And there are other places within 2 hours that are very remote. We keep our camping gear together and it wouldn't take long to load up.

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