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#43102 - 07/09/05 06:47 AM Re: Dog Survival
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
John,

I am afraid I am still not properly conveying my message here, so I will try one last time and then I think we should probably move on or risk being censured.

All your points in your last message make sense, on paper. In fact, these are the same ideas I came up with in the past, and pursued. The end result was that for 6 months our SPCA center was shut down, and we had nowhere in our area to take unwanted animals, which created a huge mess. Then we were stuck with a for profit kennel that would not accept animals unless you paid money up front. When folks started going to nearby jurisdictions, it didn't take the other ACAs long to come up with a "no outsiders" policy as well. Our city council was queried, and they just shrugged and said "that's business". It was in the newspaper for a while, and there were some letters to the editor, but nothing changed, mainly because there was no funding for anything different. If dogs were branded livestock, then I would agree that taking strays off my property willfully could be considered theft, but they are not, so open range laws do not apply to them. They are, from the DA's viewpoint, abandoned property, and can be thus treated. As far as civil action goes, I don't like spending precious time and money to go to court (even small claims court) only to find that my hispanic neighbors are "judgement proof", and have nothing I would want or could use/resell for any value, not to mention that then I have started a war with these people. There is nothing surreptitious or criminal about my methods, any more than having the tow truck operator impound your vehicle for being illegally parked.

For the two times I've had to resort to relocating someone's pet out of town, they thus far have not replaced the animal, or if they have, I have not seen the replacement yet. So I would conclude my approach had the desired effect, without creating any undesirable confrontations.

I am glad that the outcome of your encounter worked out as well as you portray. From your previous post, I concluded that you had suffered more grievous injury, but you handled it as you saw fit, and if I were faced with similar danger, I would likely use necessary force to defend myself and utilize legal remedies as well. Fortunately, this is not a huge problem where I live, so my issues really have more to do with property rights than with outright defense. Still, pre-emptive action to remove strays is I believe a sound proactive approach.

What I would do is not legally considered abuse or abandonment, at least not by my local constabulary, and the public is already in danger from an animal that is already loose on it, so how does someone else's inconsideration suddenly become my responsibility? I am not going to pay to have someone else's dog impounded.

Pure and simple, my approach works, and gives the animal a better chance than putting them down would, which I may be legally entitled to do. I find nothing obnoxious about sparing a poor animal's life, even if it means he and others may have to face a certain amount of hardship. Ultimately, for me anyways, this was the best choice I felt was available to me.

I guess I better get started on fencing in my whole property when I get back home. Slowly but surely I am ending up like Bert Gummer. That's a shame, because there are a few really good people in my neighborhood, but a couple screw things up for all of us. Kinda reminds me of Baghdad. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#43103 - 07/09/05 06:50 AM Re: Dog Survival
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
My home is at the fringe of Suburban/rural in South Central Washington.

I have tried to tell my neighbors about the problems with their dog, only my spanish is not that good. In the end we just smile at each other and walk away.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#43104 - 07/09/05 07:07 AM Re: Dog Survival
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Oh yeah, here's the epitome of true irony to this whole topic:

I had to put one of my hunting dogs down because some idiot kid climbed over my fence into my yard (after being told not to) and got bit. I got sued, and my attorney said I could either pay the damages or put the dog down or fight the good fight in court. No dog I would own is worth going broke over, which was where this was headed, so I lost my dog.

How's that for payback? Fortunately my homeowner's policy covered the poor little hispanic kid's pain and suffering and sent his folks a check for about $3,000. Of course no one was interested in pursuing a trespass action, since the family left about a month after my insurance paid them off. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#43105 - 07/09/05 11:17 PM Re: Dog Survival
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506

Edit:Ah, never mind.

By the way, thank you for serving our country.

As far as bad dogs go, I bought some bear spray from Cabelas last summer. While jogging I had a collie mix take off after me nipping at my heels. After hollering "get away" about a dozen times I shot a stream right into his face at about 4'. He retreated. The next day when he saw me coming he went the other way. No animal control, no dead dog, no bit heels. I highly recommend pepper spray--and if I were a woman I wouldn't leave home without it even if I were packing a .357 Magnum.

Regards, Vince


Edited by norad45 (07/10/05 01:39 AM)

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#43106 - 07/10/05 07:50 AM Re: Dog Survival
Anonymous
Unregistered


What's the matter Ben -- don't want to address my points?????

What you do is a legal tresspass in MY jurisdiction, because when you release a dong in a public way and it enters upon MY property you have constructively reached into my property and are liable for resulting damages. Su save, senor?

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#43107 - 07/10/05 01:56 PM Re: Dog Survival
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
No problem. Let's try this:

In my jurisdiction, the DA has a different opinion. It isn't my dog, and I have no responsibility for it's actions when it is in the public domain. I am not releasing it, but relocating it, much the same as if I had run it off my land back onto the street. You are telling me that once I capture the dog, I am responsible for it? What if the dog manages to get into my back yard while I am at work, then can't get back out and it gets desperate, and when I come home and open the gate unkowingly, it escapes and runs down the road and bites a kid? Do you think I could be held liable for that too?

As for the what if with the calf, if the dogs are on my property and it is my calf or the calf is my responsibility, then I shoot the dogs, bringing a quick end to a bad situation. I don't like doing it, but I've had to do it before, and I am within my legal rights according to the DA at home.

I don't much tolerate any sort of threat on my property. It doesn't really matter from who or what. If possible, I will let the LE handle things, but if the condition warrants it, I am quite capable of taking care of most problems myself, or anyone else in the family for that matter.

Yes, I save very well. But this is now straying (pardon the pun) far away from the forum thesis, and I think each of us should decide for ourselves what is best. I only offered my two cents because that has been my experience and I know what works for me, but each of us has their own ideas. I reckon if we all thought the same way, the lawyers would be nearly out of business. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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