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#40515 - 05/06/05 03:57 AM Knife sharpening: How to detect/avoid a wire edge?
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
I'm a newbie at sharpening and believe I'm ending up with a wire edge probably. Feels fantastic slicing that first tomato, equally great on the second, but already starting to feel a tad duller on the third. Not exactly a durable edge there! I'm using a Gatco clamp-and-rod guided sharpener set at the next to thickest edge setting. The knife is pretty much a cheapie, but I like it. A Kershaw Ken Onion Vapor (plain, not serrated). I've seen wire edges mentioned in many places, but nothing really on how to detect if you're creating one, other than the after-the-fact symptom of quick dulling. Also, the standard recommendation of how to stop making a wire edge is something like "Be careful not to create a wire edge next time". Well duh. But HOW do you do that? I also have a Spyderco Sharpmaker, but thought my problems might have been an inconsistant angle, so I got the Gatco to see if that would help. That, and the Sharpmaker seemed to take me FOREVER to sharpen with and I tended to press so hard that my hands ached and cramped. And if that's not enough, I rounded off the tip of the knife the last time I used the Sharpmaker. I TOLD you I was a newbie! Can anyone give me any pointers that would be meaningful to a complete sharpening moron (me!) ? Thanks!

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#40516 - 05/06/05 03:01 PM Re: Knife sharpening: How to detect/avoid a wire e
brian Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
I had a Lansky (a lot like your Gatco if its the model I think it is) and once I bought and used the Shapmaker, the Lansky went to the trash can. Your knife is of decent quality. I think the onions are 440 so no worries there. You should be able to get a great edge on it and although it won't hold an edge like some more expensive steels it certainly shouldn't be dulled but 3 tomatos <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. If you can get a wire edge from the Gatco then a few 40* swipes (med to light pressure) on the white rods of the Sharpmaker afterwards should really get you to where you want to be. Joe Talmadge, a fellow forumite both here and at bladeforums.com wrote an outstanding sharpening guide. If you haven't already read it I highly recommend it. Here's a link to it.
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Learn to improvise everything.

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#40517 - 05/06/05 08:39 PM Re: Knife sharpening: How to detect/avoid a wire edge?
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Sharpening can be taken to the same extreme as some firearm reloaders. You get so involved in the minutae of ultimate performance the barrel/knife is shot/worn out without ever actually going bang or cut in the real world. First of all, you may want to invest in a few inexpensive moras or opinels. You can learn alot on those knives, besides how many high end blades fail to cut much better <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I NEED a wire edge to know when my knives are approaching the desired edge. Knowing you have one is no mystery either. Imagine taking a sheet of aluminum foil and folding a very short edge over @ 90 degrees . Now take your fingernail or a very fine bent wire etc. You will be able to feel the wire edge hooking both. Then you simply reverse the edge and sharpen the other side to the same efffect, knocking off that fold and creating a new one in reverse. It then becomes a progressive action of repeating this with ever finer abrasives and lighter strokes until the wire becomes almost immeasurable. I get my knives to a fine using edge and then switch to a ceramic rod to straighten out the minute bends. This is the same idea as 'steeling' kitchen cutlery and doesn't remove material. I don't have the finess of somebody who 'knows' when a knife is sharp by some zen martial arts intuitive skill. I LIKE to know whats happening with my junk from opening the package to retiring it in the trash. Rounding the tip off is a common pitfall. Remember it is subtly changing in angle and thickness from straight edge to point and you must too. Half the red handles moras come with really sloppy points and to our benefit teach putting a point on correctly.

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#40518 - 05/06/05 09:41 PM Re: Knife sharpening: How to detect/avoid a wire e
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Thanks for the tips, both Chris and Brian. I'll do some more work tonight to see if I can improve. I have an idea of what I might be doing wrong after both of your comments. Brian's on a final light touch with the fine grit Sharpmaker rod, and Chris' about the fine edge flopping from side-to-side as you sharpen. I can feel that bead moving from side to side BTW, I think my problem is in finally getting rid of it at the end. I'm probably not getting rid of it - instead only straightening it out so it's sticking out in line with the blade. What I'm reading into your answers is that I might be using too heavy of a hand, or too coarse of a stone, in my final work. So I'm bending that final bead into alignment with the blade as opposed to filing it off. I'll go at this theory tonight and see what I can do. I'm not too worried about possibly trashing my Vapor. The silly thing was only $19.95 at WalMart if I remember. I was impressed with the smoothness of it's opening, which was a major reason why I bought it. I'm sure WalMart still has more should I royally screw this one up...

Thanks again - I appreciate it!


Edited by haertig (05/06/05 09:42 PM)

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#40519 - 05/09/05 02:38 PM Re: Knife sharpening: How to detect/avoid a wire e
brian Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
Those Vapors are nice knives. Nicer than a whole lot of knives out there costing twice as much $$. I am eager to hear how it goes. It sounds like stropping on a piece of cardboard at 22 degrees might be an option for resolving your issues also but lets not go there if we don't need to. Best to keep things simple at this point.
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.

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#40520 - 05/09/05 04:27 PM Re: Knife sharpening: How to detect/avoid a wire edge?
MMULLINS Offline
CRUMP
Newbie

Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 33
Loc: GREAT FALLS, MT
Haertig, good to see another knife guy on here. I can give this advice. That Sharpmaker is an AWESOME tool. It will do a lot more than knives as well. I am sure you read through the book that came with it. as far as other tools and sharpeners, having just one will never do. I have several knives that don't respond very well to say a diamond stone, then another knife that don't do well with ceramic. The Spyderco "Double-Stuff" flat stone is a great little sharpener. You have to really practice keeping the edge at the correct angle, but your also not limited bu whatever angle that came with a Gatco, or Lansky. I personally can't stand either of those sharpeners, even though they are a good quality item. I have been using the free hand method for quite a while. Your right, you were flattening out that burr instead of rolling it away a little at a time. The key is using the finest stones possible. That's why I like the Spyderco stones. They do an outstanding job of polishing an edge as well.
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19+ years US Air Force. Heavy and Special Equipment Mechanic.

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#40521 - 05/09/05 05:43 PM Re: Knife sharpening: How to detect/avoid a wire e
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Thanks again for the help. I worked on my Vapor over the weekend. First, I recreated the point that I had rounded of previously. That really wasn't hard to fix - I was surprised. I took the spine of the blade down slightly with a coarse (cheap) stone I've had laying around forever. Then polished up the spine a bit and resharpened the entire knife. I used the Gatco. It seems some of you don't care for these guided systems, but I thought I'd give it another shot myself. To be honest, I'm actually pretty happy with it. I'll hang onto my Sharpmaker as well. Maybe with more practice I'll get better with the Spyderco. I'm almost willing to bet that my problem with the Sharpmaker have to do with letting my blade get too dull between sharpenings. The Spyderco seems to take a LONG time for me to get anything done. I'm not kidding in the slightest when I say I've worked for HOURS trying to sharpen a knife. I probably got impatient, started pressing too hard to hurry up, and then bent, rather than filed off, the burr.

Well, the new edge on my Vapor certainly "feels" better to me. Somehow it just felt I did a better sharpening job using a very light touch with the finest stone to finish up. It's definitely sharp now. We'll see how the durability goes over the next few days. I have another of my infamous tomatoes in my lunch today. We're got a bunch of tomatoes at home, so by the end of the week I should know if my sharpening passes the "three tomato test", or fails miserably like last time! Whatever - with the help you all have given, it sure seems like I'm doing a better job sharpening. I feel much more confident. So if it takes more practice for me to finally get it right, so be it. I actually enjoyed this last weekend's sharpening - rather than dreaded it as I have in the past.

Thanks!

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