Most people I’ve talked to think non-lethal ammunition is useless in home defense situations. I hear things like: “Kill the DELETED” a lot. I believe it would make my family feel better (see previous post) and I admit myself as well. I found a site that carries several different types (http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__17/catalog__17.html). Any thoughts?
Thanks.

I guess the first thing to remember is, don't get killed by leathal ammo while you have non-lethal. Also non-lethal can kill and severaly injure. Would you be better off with OC spray and a baseball bat ? I'll leave the lawsuit end of this to those that are more qualified than I am.I suppose the Taser would also be an alternative. I'm not sure about the range that non-lethal ammo is non-leathal, inside a living room might be too close.

1. You spray OC indoors and youre attacking yourself as well. I worked security in a bar in college and one night when someone sprayed mace/teargas/pepper spray it cleared the place out. This was a big bar and several people required medical treatment. Unless youre a trained profession with the appropriate equipment I would not spray OC indoors! Furthermore be VERY aware of the wind before spraying outdoors.

2. Baseball bats are extremely lethal!

3. Rock salt and rubber bullets are a nice idea but remember you endanger yourself and your family by making this your only form of defense. That being said, a nonlethal weapon is better defense than none at all in most situations.

I looked at the site and I think if youre going to try to load something like riot (rubber) shot or bean bags in order to do a favor to the person that invades your home armed with lethal ammunition, I would still only load the first two shells in an 8 round tube with such ammunition and have the rest of the tube loaded with the real thing. Also beware when buying this stuff. If you must buy nonlethal ammo I would suggest finding a law enforcement supplier. Theres a lot of crap out there that will make your barrel blow up in your face.

Editted: Corrected Type-O's and added some information.

Seems sensible.

Examples of non Lethal ammo sold in France
On the same site, you can see some handguns using those ammo.

French laws : anybody can buy the 12/50 cartridges, filled with rubber buckshot (12 small rubber balls - ref GC27C on the mentioned web page). But you need a special permit (the same you need to buy a .357 handgun) to buy the 12/50 cartridges filled with 1 single big rubber ball.

As for being non-lethal : the manufacturer of both those 12/50 cartridges recommands on the packaging not to use them under 5m.
That doesn't prevent the retailler to mention on his web page "High stopping capacity up to 4m." !!!!

Yeah, keep in mind, "non-lethal" is a misnomer. "Less-lethal" is more accurate. Only use them if you are ok with taking a life. That said, it is more considerate and although I am no legal expert, Im sure the fact that you at least tried to use less-lethal force first would work in your favor. Im sure many would disagree, but IMO, ressponsible gun owners should always have their home defence weapons loaded with one or two less lethals before actual shot. If you are going to use lethal ammo, consider something like Glaser safty slugs or thunderzaps for pistols and all the variety of oddball shotgun loads that are less-lethal. Again, im sure many would disagree, but I oppose the use of rifles for home defence for both practicallity and safety issues.

It is always better to be saftey conscience and considerate than to risk tragedy.

MichaelJ:

I have some qualms about answering a post that was edited by Chris the administrator, but I guess you can't be as bad as a certain Aussie I took to task.

I have burglar alarm warnings posted all over the entrances to my domain. They are not some yahoo companies that claim expertise in the field but are Radio Shack products that were designed according to my wants.

If someone were too stupid to read the warnings and dumber yet to not run away when the outside klaxon horns (Screw the bell alarms!) start screaming and the chimney mounted red light starts blinking and they continue to enter, and if I am home at the time, then the only testimony that will be considered is that of the guy standing (ME!) over the bodies (THEM!) no longer breathing.

IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT THAT SCENERIO, THROW YOUR WEAPONS AWAY, PUT SIGNS UP AROUND YOUR DOMAIN SAYING "SHEEP INSIDE" AND GET ON YOUR KNEES AND GIVE THEM WHATEVER THEY WANT IF AND WHEN THEY DO COME IN! <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Geesh!, these kinds of posts demonstrate how the Huns and other aggressive types in small numbers were able to ride roughshod over the masses.

Bountyhunter

Pete, calm down. Michael's first post contained a single expletive. I deleted it. No crisis. I should carry a stopwatch and start a betting pool for how long certain subjects initiate eye twitching. Doug could take a winnings % and actually get our profanity filter operating again and buy critter a new truckbed. Michael has expressed ethical concerns that someone in the firearms industry has obviously responded to. Flaming him is exactly what the firearms community and ETS needs, isn't it?

In addition to different spray patterns (stream & cone), they make foam OC for indoor use. You can also get Sudecon decontaminate wipes.

However, AFAIK, the foam is harder to use and you need to get it into the attacker's eyes/nose/mouth which might be a bit trickier than it sounds.

However, the thing you need to consider with OC, is after you have sprayed the guy, what then? You only have given yourself a temporary edge. You still have a (potentially) huge guy with a (possibly) knife/gun in your house, and now he's probably really POed. Typically the answer is "run away really fast", but that works a lot better for joggers, not for someone in their house with the inherent barriers to escape in addition to the need to protect your family.

-john


FWIW, I've heard good things about the Fox Labs OC spray. They offer cone, stream and foam in various sizes.

Personally, I think non-lethal (less lethal) ammunition is a bad idea in general for personal self defense.

Consider:

If you only load your firearm with less lethal ammunition, why use a firearm at all? Perhaps a Taser like the X26 might be a better selection.

Less lethal ammunition probably is pretty lethal in close quarters.

If you use both normal amunition and less lethal ammunition you likely:

1) won't have what you need loaded and
2) you are likely to screw up.

-john

Non leathal!!! Forget it. It is only worthwhile for LEO's engaged in riot duty. They have back up on the spot if the threat level increases.

In your home you are the front linr and the back up. You can't aford not to use the most devastating force available to you. If you are alione you can take the chance. If you are protecting your family the idea is to end any confrontation instantly.

Nic as to less than leathal Glassers are actually more damaging to the end target than most other rounds. The safety part is that the are designed to minimize over penitration and ricochet potential not lessen the effect on the person being shot. The only thing the name safety slug has going for it in those terms is in court. Your lawyer can say well he tried not to hurt him to bad he did use safety slugs.

I'm not saying that Glassers are not good defense round. In fact they are excellent for that use its just that they are by far not non leathal.

But you best home defense weapon is a 12 gauge loaded with birdshot 6 or even smaller.