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#31073 - 09/03/04 09:22 PM Re: No blade!
brian Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
Welcome to the forum Flip. I'm going to have to step up and take Bounty's side on this even though he is one strange cookie in general. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> J/K. Anyway...

Flip, in response to your message to Bounty.... I don't know how things are where you're from but in my neck of the woods, having my son on board the plane would be more reason to resist rather than sit complacently and let him die. One doesn't have to be a hero to not be a coward. One doesn?t have to be a hero to protect his children but he certainly is a coward to sit complacently and watch them die. That is my opinion... nothing more and nothing less. I normally stay out of the "political" threads but this one hits too close to home because I have actually been in life threatening situations and you mentioning kids as a defense of cowarace is something I can't remain silent about. It scares me to know that there are so many cowards in the world. I hope I am there if the time comes so that my son doesn?t have to depend on a coward to protect his life in my absence. When someone puts a gun to your head do you 1) rely on them to not pull the trigger or 2) assume that they will pull it and do whatever it takes to preserve your life? This is a bit exteme but still a worthwhile (yet simplistic) analogy for the hijacking situation.
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.

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#31074 - 09/03/04 10:24 PM Re: No blade!
Anonymous
Unregistered



Gee Brian tell us how youd react when violence was threatened against your family. When a terrorist has a kife to your kids neck. Share with us your vast experience in handling life and death situations like this.

Talk is cheap we can rev up the manhood and claim we'd kick some ass but reality speaks differently. Do you think Brian there were no tough guys on the planes Sept 11?

Not knowing whats about to happen and fear paralyzes the toughest and its actually the people you wouldn't think would react that actually do.

Unless you have lived through a dire, death imminent, violent situation you DO NOT know how youd react.

Of course on a survival forum we be all rambo types though <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Flip


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#31075 - 09/03/04 10:36 PM Re: No blade!
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I was going to take your word on this, but I remembered the last time I had flown prior to 9-11-2001. It was sometime in 1993 and I distinctly remember being warned--I think by my boss--not to carry my knife on board. I left my Old Timer stockman at home. I did a little digging and found this:

Statement of James C. May ( president and CEO of the Air Transport Association of America) to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
May 22, 2003

“Let me be completely candid with regard to the reported role of box cutting devices in the attack. Under pre-9/11 FAA regulations only ‘knives with blades four inches long or longer and/or knives considered illegal under local law’ were prohibited. Under a non-regulatory Checkpoint Operations Guide, developed by the FAA, the Regional Airline Association and the ATA, with FAA approval interpreting the FAA regulations, box cutting devices were considered a restricted item posing a potential danger. This meant that if such a device was identified, it could be kept off the aircraft. The FAA mandated metal-detection walk-through systems, however, were designed and tested to detect metallic items about the size of a small handgun or larger. The pre-9/11 screening system was not designed to detect or prohibit these types of small items, and we have no information indicating they were identified in the actual 9/11 screening of the terrorists.”

He seems to be suggesting that there were restrictions on knives at the time even if they were not prohibited by FAA regulations.

Obviously a moot point though since blades of any sort were not being screened for.

Regards, Vince


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#31076 - 09/03/04 10:43 PM Re: No blade!
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I'm pretty sure how I would react.

Pre 9-11: I would have sat quietly and did what I was told.

On 9-11: I don't know. (Do I have a cellphone?)

Post 9-11: I may not have a knife but I've still got teeth.

It's not really about being a hero. It's more like desperation.

(A 3" piece of hacksaw blade would be pretty useless though.)

Regards, VInce

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#31077 - 09/03/04 11:48 PM Re: No blade!
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Ah ha!:

Not getting your check yet proves you work for the government, or you have a tax refund coming that they are trying to keep from you.

In Wisconsin, a knife is a weapon if the blade is over 3" long. The last time I looked, there was no Federal law covering pocket knives. The last dictionary I looked at stated a weapon is anything used "OFFENSIVELY" against a human being, not defensively.

Bountyhunter

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#31078 - 09/04/04 12:11 AM Re: No blade!
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Flipper:

First of all, take a deep breath and calm down. Words on a screen should not induce a heart attack.

A hero, hardly, and I would have initially done what everyone else did on that ill fated voyage until I had heard the news. At that time, the premise is that everyone is going to die anyway, so at least try to destroy their mission even though unintended targets on the ground will die along with everyone on board.

What I am talking about is post 9-11. It makes more sense right now to allow people to carry knives so that if some yahoo does try to take over the plane, he will have armed masses to contend with instead of unarmed masses.

Back when some militants killed a member of the U.S. Navy, I decided it is better to kill them while on the ground than to let them kill innocents at will. This is easy for me to risk my family (Parents and brothers, no wives or children.) because our historical Baltic connection as enemies of the Arab world makes us expendable entities. Yes, if such a situation had arisen way back then, and either of my parents were being held with knives at their throats, I would have gone for the kill because I know my parents would be killed anyway so there is nothing to lose.

Of course this is all theory and bravado talking as none of us knows what we will and can do until it happens.

Bountyhunter

(P.S. Zoloft is really good stuff, better than Prozac and with far fewer side affects.)


Edited by bountyhunter (09/04/04 12:41 AM)

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#31079 - 09/04/04 12:19 AM Re: No blade!
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Aw shucks Brian:

You don't have to compliment me, but thank you, I wear "strange, weird, and politically incorrect" with pride.

Good example, but cowardice can sometimes be, confused, unsure, hesitant, and concerned. We are all afraid of something.

Bountyhunter

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#31080 - 09/04/04 12:24 AM Re: No blade!
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Flipper:

I don't have that New York accent or the body for a Rambo type, but I know I would never want to be a Richard Simmons type (Except for the money, that I would like, his money.).

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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#31081 - 09/04/04 12:29 AM Re: No blade!
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Norad45:

I don't know about the teeth bit.

Because so many people have access to bullet and knife resistant vests, the place I would be shoving my knife repeatedly might give people the wrong idea if I were to start biting him there repeatedly. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I would want it clearly understood that I was attacking the hijacker and not gratifying him.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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#31082 - 09/04/04 02:52 AM Re: No blade!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jeez bounty, how come they decided to pick on YOU? I'm glad I'm just getting cought up on this thread, or I'd have probably gotten it too! For what it's worth, I would tend to agree with you more often than your detractors, and I HAVE pulled the weapon from the other guy's hand MORE THAN ONCE, Flipper (No...not a hijacker on a plane, but a knife is a knife, and a pistol is a pistol, no matter where you're standing, and no matter who's holding it). Keep up the good fight bounty...I'm with ya all the way.

Troy


Edited by wildcard163 (09/04/04 02:55 AM)

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