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#29803 - 08/02/04 11:41 PM FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
etehiver Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 27
This may be a long shot, but have any of you ever successfully used one of the popular FRS or GMRS radios in a big city with lots of obstacles? I'm thinking of a family communication backup in case of blackout or phone outage scenario. What general range should I expect?

Maybe I'm looking for another kind of radio. Maybe it's impossible. Although I see NYC bike messengers with something that looks like a radio. Any thoughts?

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#29804 - 08/03/04 12:01 AM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
X-ray Dave Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 572
Loc: Nevada
The FRS/GMRS work fine for short range. How short depends, going mountain top to mountain top with no obstructions, say a couple of miles, maybe even more. But in the city that would drop. The key is to somehow get use of a Repeater, that would extend your range considerably. There may be a Repeater in your area for GMRS users or you all could get Ametuer Licenses and join a local club that has a repeater (or maybe more than 1) to use. The repeaters need power to run them, so they also can stop working. Keep in mind that you can also loose the repeater if the structure it is on is damaged or burns (WTC).

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#29805 - 08/03/04 03:00 AM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
The bike messengers are using trunked radios, or conventional business band radios on coordinated repeaters.
GMRS/FRS will get you - at best - 3 blocks or 1 floor in NYC.
Better bet is ham radio, but even that's not great. It's RF soup there.

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#29806 - 08/03/04 04:26 AM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
Anonymous
Unregistered


Two miles at best, and obstructions will cut down on that. If you want any kind of distance, you'll need something that uses a repeater or something (over five watts and illegal without licencing) that will have the FCC paying you a visit.


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#29807 - 08/03/04 02:44 PM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
RF Soup, yes, but Ham radio works very well.

There is some intermod, particularly on UHF, but we have repeaters that cover MOST of the city (there are some holes covered by other boxes - NYC is a big place). Good radios with a fairly good, tight receiver are fine. Hint - rigs with dc-daylight receive do worse with intermod than rigs that ONLY receive "in band"

Disclaimer - I'm the Queens County ARES EC - NYC District ARES
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#29808 - 08/03/04 03:45 PM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I don't know squat about HAM, been thinking of getting the no code license for years, but just keep putting it off. My question is this...in the event of a blackout, would repeaters and other in-place comm aids work??? Do they have generator backup, or will they die just like cell phones do???
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OBG

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#29809 - 08/03/04 06:45 PM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Yes and no - It all depends on the repeater! Some are on batteries and/or generators, and obviously they will stay up, so are not, and they go down. Of the primary freqs ARES uses in NYC, about 25% are on backup, including one with citywide coverage

Now, one of the things we train for is "simplex" operations - aka, direct radio to radio with NO repeaters. Not that big a deal, just don't try to go from, lets say the Bronx to Staten Island with a 5 watt HT and a rubber duckie antenna - It's NOT going to happen. Heck that going to be a stretch even with mobile units - but people will relay your traffic

On HF, that kind of distance is "trivial", and in jact, depending on antennas can be to SHORT (due to skip)

To give you an example - I live in the FAR NE corner of Queens - I can get my signal into most on Manhattan, the Bronx, MOST of Brooklyn, and small parts of Staten Island, along with oh, 85% of Nassau - enough that I can reach repeaters in all but Staten Island. Depending on what kind of antenna and power you are running, you may reach me from those same spots, SIMPLEX

We had no problems keeping at least 3-4 repeaters on the air during the last balackout in NYC alone, and a lot of the stuff in Nassau was up (they have more sites with batteries than we do, simply because of space - room for batteries in repeater locations can cost BIG dollars and is usually NOT available on a donation basis)
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#29810 - 08/03/04 07:50 PM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
Well, let me rephrase my ham radio comment.
Yes, you can get ham radio coverage in NYC...however, I've found that (esp on UHF) that pager intermod makes it very, very hard to tolerate.

2M is better, but is chopy in terms of coverage.

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#29811 - 08/03/04 10:35 PM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
I used to have a lot of problem with intermod - then I started buying commercial gear that is type accepted in the ham bands - aka, the good (but VERY expensive if you buy new )stuff. I have not been bothered by intermod since. That's part of my comment about gear that is designed for DC-daylight receive - it suffers from intermod a LOT more than stuff with more selective receiver sections

It's worth it to me, because I know where to buy used, have the contacts to program the stuff, and being one of the 5 ARES ECs in the city, I feel it's important that _I_ can get on the air
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#29812 - 08/04/04 03:45 AM Re: FRS/GMRS radios in urban environment
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I never would have thougth of batteries, I would have figured that even deep cycle batteries would go flat too fast. Learn something new every day...
_________________________
OBG

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