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#295285 - 03/19/20 05:18 AM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: LesSnyder]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2816
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
question for any virologists or informed souls... in time of short supply can a N95 style mask be sanitized by ozone (O3) or UV?....would allow individual users to sanitize their own masks without cross contamination... possibly if there is enough water in the protein sheath of the Wuhan strain to be destroyed by a microwave...or high wet or dry temps?... just questioning


I claim no hard evidence on this. But if it were my situation, I would soak them in methyl hydrate.

It's a form of pure methanol, and IME it doesn't change the structure of fibres. The good part is you can get it at any paint/hardware store, in the paint section. In cold climes like mine, it's also used as gas line antifreeze.

If alcohol hand sanitizer at 60% concentration kills this virus, this should be massively effective. I know that arborists and master gardens use it to sterilize their tools from disease, bacterial and fungal.

The kicker is safe handling: it's water soluble, absorbed by the skin or respiratory tract, and quite poisonous to the nervous system. It's all the hangovers you've ever had, concentrated. But if allowed to fully evaporate, there is no residue.

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#295288 - 03/19/20 10:28 AM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: teacher]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1228
How about face masks made from cloth ???

They are washable and sterilizeable, by bleach or even boiling water.
So, the question is : is there any type of textile that is good enough to filter viruses ???

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#295290 - 03/19/20 02:02 PM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: Chisel]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 839
Loc: wellington, fl
Home made cloth mask

If you can think of it, somebody at NIH has used tax dollars to test it.

A mask doesn't have to filter individual viruses, it has to filter aerosol droplets. Transmission of disease requires a transmission of a viral load that is capable of overcoming my immune response, which is pretty robust for oral ingestion, less so for nasal, and quite limited for eye entrance. The t shirt mask was less effective than the N95, but still achieved N60 or so, a significant reduction in exposure.
Too, using the mask successfully requires discipline and training, proper fit, and that sort of thing. Put a mask on an untrained user and it is a talisman, not ppe.
The masks are designed as disposable items because, if used where they are needed, they collect a LOT of virus load on the outside of the mask. Washing the mask, whether synthetic or cotton, will remove the viral load, but have an undetermined effect on the filter mesh size. And the disposable N95 masks are rated for single patient encounter use: no one is quite sure what will happen if you wear the same N95 for 12 hours-virus may well migrate over time from the outer surface to the inner surface.

And then there is the possibility that masks don't work anyaway.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#295292 - 03/19/20 03:02 PM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: teacher]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2138
Loc: Colorado
Surgical masks were really designed to protect the patient from the surgeon, not the surgeon from the patient. They will be much more effective in preventing you from spreading the disease you have, rather than protecting you from getting the disease you don't want to get. A mask may have some effect in protecting you from getting a virus. A very minimal effect. Just like wrapping your head in toilet paper (if you could find any) will have some effect...

I am guessing here, and have no scientific evidence, but I would propose that staying 6 feet away from an infected person without a mask might do you better than being 3 feet away with a mask. I'm talking surgical type masks here. Not the positive pressure, air tank fed, sealed facemasks like firefighters use.

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#295294 - 03/19/20 03:55 PM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: haertig]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: haertig
Surgical masks were really designed to protect the patient from the surgeon, not the surgeon from the patient. They will be much more effective in preventing you from spreading the disease you have, rather than protecting you from getting the disease you don't want to get. A mask may have some effect in protecting you from getting a virus. A very minimal effect. Just like wrapping your head in toilet paper (if you could find any) will have some effect...

I am guessing here, and have no scientific evidence, but I would propose that staying 6 feet away from an infected person without a mask might do you better than being 3 feet away with a mask. I'm talking surgical type masks here. Not the positive pressure, air tank fed, sealed facemasks like firefighters use.


Did you read nurse mike's link? Even a t-shirt material is 50% as effective. Some hospitals are requesting volunteers make them at home for the medical workers use as they can't get anything else. Sure it is a stopgap attempt at reducing the load, but not useless.

I haven't seen TP, bleach, peroxide or alcohol on the store shelves for a couple of weeks. Paper towels in a few places. Some are making masks from layers of paper towels too. Rice and bean are low too.

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#295295 - 03/19/20 04:09 PM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: Chisel]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5300
Loc: SOCAL
I was looking at the packaging of a “Breathe Healthy” face mask I purchased from Amazon (no longer available) over a year ago primarily to use during wildfires. It’s washable and antimicrobial
Quote:
* Treated with Aegis Microbe Shield®Antimicrobial.
* Lab tested effective @ 1.0 microns. Helps to filter pollens, dust, many types of bacteria, airborne germs from coughs and sneezes, pet dander and mold spores.

The instructions are to hand wash in cold water and air dry. To preserve antimicrobial integrity do not wash in bleach or dry clean.

As I understand, “viruses”, need to hitch a ride on water droplets from sneezes and coughs, so the mask should be effective until the H2O is aerosolized.

That said, filter inserts are available. PM2.5 Activated Carbon Filter for Mask... I was considering using a 27x27 bandana and sewing a pocket to accept these filter inserts, but the masks are available that accept them. Never used them so I have not idea how well they work.

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#295305 - 03/19/20 11:30 PM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: clearwater]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2138
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: clearwater

Did you read nurse mike's link? Even a t-shirt material is 50% as effective.

So a T-Shirt is 50% as effective as a mask, and a mask is not terribly effective in the first place? OK, score one for the T-Shirt.

I never said a mask was useless. I said, "A mask may have some effect in protecting you from getting a virus. A very minimal effect."

I also said, "They will be much more effective in preventing you from spreading the disease you have, rather than protecting you from getting the disease you don't want to get."

Personally, I would not bother with a mask (to try to protect myself), I would simply maintain distance. But I have no problem with anyone who wants to wear a mask. However, I would wear a mask when visiting the elderly, even if I were symptom free. As well as maintaining distance. And washing my hands the moment I walked into their home. that's exactly what I do when visiting my elderly piano teacher (lessons are off for now, but I still stop by to deliver things). Additionally, I use a plastic bag as a make-shift glove when touching her doorknob to let myself into and out of her house, after the briefest of brief visits needed to get the job done. Unfortunately, my supply of masks can be counted on one hand, so I have to re-use them. That is not ideal.

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#295342 - 03/21/20 03:14 PM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: haertig]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 839
Loc: wellington, fl
CDC on how to break the mask rules in the best possible way

Reusing masks is okay.
Bandannas are okay.

BTW, you are perfectly correct in saying that distance works instead of a mask, and the generally accepted distance is 6 feet. There is some recent research on droplet vs aerosol vs airborne transmission, suggesting that it's more complicated , and other research suggesting that some patients are capable of forceful expulsion of droplets ( that would be a "cough', I believe) for greater distances for which I have no footnote. This is all pretty deep in the scientific weeds for me.
As an occasional victim of FDA and CDC investigations, it is absolutely stunning to see the normally righteously indignant technocrats say "well, screw it, reuse the disposables and make your own masks." It's a "Hold my beer, watch this!" at a really high level.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#295345 - 03/21/20 04:33 PM Re: Shoulda stocked more tp [Re: nursemike]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7193
Loc: southern Cal
Thanks! Great resource and information.
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