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#294429 - 12/19/19 09:20 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: hikermor]
Herman30 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 356
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: hikermor
You are right- my standard line basically is "Don't waste your money on this junk."

That is because that is my honest opinion based on six decades of experience...


Here,here! Well spoken!

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#294430 - 12/19/19 09:46 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: teacher]
M_a_x Online   happy
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: Germany
My basic carry items are a decent folder, a flashlight, a BIC lighter, a ferro rod, some matches, a pair of nitril gloves, a few band aids and a first aid packet. The items except the folder and the flashlight are less than 20€ in total.
Anything on top of that will depend on the situation. The kit will consist of items I already have. So budget would not really be a concern.I aquired those items over time when I felt that I would need them ( or wanted a new toy wink ).
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#294431 - 12/19/19 10:41 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: teacher]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7292
Loc: southern Cal
excellent question and quite pertinent. But I have one problem; my complaint isn't the cost, per se, but rather the utility of items selected. All too often they are marginal gear which may fail when needed.

The cost workable gear is all over the place.Good items are often quite cheap, but sometimes are very costly. If they do their job, they are worth every penny.

Consider climbing ropes. Years ago (1958) i bought a perfectly good (for that era) for $20. Todays ropes, superior in every respect, can easily cost more than ten times as much. At some point you will find yourself suspended by that rope in a situation where rope failure would mean certain death. Yu will be glad you spent good money on that rope and the gear that accompanies it.

Same story with sleeping bags packs, shoes, and a whole lot of other items. Of course you look for good gear that is a bargain because the most expensive is not necessarily the best. Any rational customer looks for the best bang for her dollar.

Let me check out my gear and see what the cost amounts too. This will take a while....
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Geezer in Chief

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#294433 - 12/20/19 02:33 AM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: teacher]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7292
Loc: southern Cal
Here is the bottom line. What I would consider "survival gear" that will accompany meon every excursion comes to a current retail cost of $433.

Here is the stuff:

cup w/foldinghandle
purell sanitizer (also fire starter)
mson twine, braided -20'
VIA coffee packets 92)
tea bag
Esbit tabs, 3
small stove for tabs
Live Fire tabs
small roll duct tape
ferro rod and striker
Bic lighter in Exotac case
Exotac match case w/premium matches
Exotac candle tins
AAA lithium battery w/ case
LD01 flashlight
AA lithium battery w/case
whistle
mylar blanket
emergency bivvy (SOL)
RSK Mk 5 knife
cotton lint (fire starter)
signal mirror
metal cup enclosing Gatorade bottle
Mora knife
3" elastic bandage
nitrile gloves
topo map (absolute essential)
Houdini shell jacket
sack of misc.energy bars
Zebralight AA headlamp
in addition, a decent FAK (not included in the cost above). There is also my EDC which goes along as well.

This gear has been acquired over time and often at a cost lower than the current list price. The items are in actual use and are supplemented usually with real sleeping bags, a tent or more substantial bivy, a canister stove, etc. i am probably carrying
a good $1000 worth of gear in my pack (REI Traverse 35, a bargain at 57 bucks a year ago).

The total cost surprises me, but me and my companions are worth it....I suspect you could cut the cost by $100 or so, if you really shopped and cut some corners
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Geezer in Chief

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#294435 - 12/20/19 01:22 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: teacher]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3360
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: teacher
As an exercise; what kit would you build instead for $100?


Not sure about price but here we go:

  • Ritter PSP
  • Heatsheets 2 person
  • Backup knife
  • Mini Bic with the button secured by a cable tie
  • Backup flashlight
  • a small number of chlorine dioxide tablets
  • 1 liter water bag with some string to carry it


This all fits in a pouch a little larger than two packs of cards. I put this together before Doug came out with the PSP+ (which has a water bag, chlorine dioxide tablets, and backup knife).

I do not pretend it is complete or carries things needed for every situation. I have a PSP that was dedicated to using and testing, and I’ve proven that I can operate the cable-tie-secured-Mini-Bic with either hand. It’s probably time to lubricate the knife and change the battery in the flashlight.

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#294436 - 12/20/19 04:58 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7292
Loc: southern Cal
Where can one obtain either the PSP or PSP+? I could not locate either at my favorite retailer (REI)
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Geezer in Chief

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#294437 - 12/20/19 05:01 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: teacher]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3360
Loc: USA
Amazon's got 'em.

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#294438 - 12/20/19 06:26 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: chaosmagnet]
NAro Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 493
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
Originally Posted By: teacher
As an exercise; what kit would you build instead for $100?


Not sure about price but here we go:

  • Ritter PSP
  • Heatsheets 2 person
  • Backup knife
  • Mini Bic with the button secured by a cable tie
  • Backup flashlight
  • a small number of chlorine dioxide tablets
  • 1 liter water bag with some string to carry it


This all fits in a pouch a little larger than two packs of cards. I put this together before Doug came out with the PSP+ (which has a water bag, chlorine dioxide tablets, and backup knife).



Exactly what I have for my PSP, with a few lifeboat matches and striker, and a "straw" of PJ+Cotton balls. I have much more cool stuff in whatever pack I carry, but I've learned the hard way that the PSP is in my POCKET: I had a horse run away with all my survival stuff one time, and another time the fanny back I was carrying hung up when I tried to recover from a dumped raft (whitewater) and almost drowned me before I could jettison it. So PSP IN MY Pocket.

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#294440 - 12/20/19 08:10 PM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: teacher]
Ren Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 245
Originally Posted By: teacher
As an exercise; what kit would you build instead for $100?


Usually find a Bacho Laplander and Mora Clipper knife combo somewhere on sale.

Thrunite TH20 or Acebeam H40 AA headlamp (both on Amazon ~$30)

Enough left over for a PSP?

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#294442 - 12/21/19 02:10 AM Re: Survival kit in a tube [Re: teacher]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2667
Loc: Big Sky Country
I am pretty fascinated with the concept of "survival kits." I have at least four of the Ritter PSPs, and two or three of the newer SOL Scout kits. Lastly I have two of the UST FeatherLite 1.0 Survival Kits. That last one isn't very good but I'll confess I bought them because the zippered pouch is very nice! grin So I reused a couple items from the kit and mostly rolled my own using the pouch.

There must be a market for small kits since there are tons on the market. To me though the main use is as a starter/base to build a kit around. Particularly the Ritter PSP! It would be hard to find all the components individually for the cost of the PSP! That said I tend towards the same point of view as Hikermor. I've spent a lot of time in the woods, I'm pretty proficient and firecraft and can improvise shelter in a fair amount of ways. But when the chips are down and I'm in a genuinely tough spot I don't want a wire saw, a compressed towel and a $1 Chinese flashlight! I've never been in a truly dangerous survival situation although a couple times things could have went south on me catastrophically if not for a bit of luck. So my kits are a lot more robust than the old Altoids Tin kits you see "reviewed" on YouTube. smirk

For $100 I could put together a kit that I'd feel pretty good about running with for my AO (western Montana and northern Idaho). The toughest part of hitting budget would be a pack to put it in but honestly I'd buy a $5 pillow case at Walmart before I'd let budget force me to leave the kit at home!

A rough draft of a $100 kit:

5-Star Gear Survival Woobie- $35
Cheap rain poncho - $1
AMK HeatSheets Blanket, 2 Person- $8
Cheap Space Blanket (but not the cheapest)- $2
BIC Lighter- $1.50
3 ESBIT- $3
3 Baddest Bee Fuse fire wicks- $3
Cold Steel Kudu knife- $8 [Note: If I could spare an extra $2 I'd go with a Mora]
20 Aquatabs- $1
1.5 L Nagene- $11
UST Signal Mirror- $8
75' Catahoula tarred bank line- $2.50
25 x UCO Stormproof Matches- $3.50
4'x6' Blue Tarp (Dollar General)- $1
1 x Tea Light Candle- $.50
Brunton Keyring Compass (nearly as large as baseplate version)- $6
Slim Rescue Howler Whistle- $5

Total: Exactly $100! To be fair this doesn't include a pack but I'd keep the Walmart plastic bag if necessary! These prices are realistic, and I have purchased all of the items for the stated price or less. Occasionally they were on sale and some items (like the whistles) must be purchased in a 2 pack to get that price. Obviously this doesn't include tax but most was purchased at Amazon with no taxes or at a B&M store here in MT where we don't have sales tax.

Will this fit in an Altoids tin? No! But could I spend an unplanned night out in the woods with it? Heck yeah! Depending on the weather I'd maybe even be cozy. The Survival Woobie is worth its weight in gold! You can use it as a blanket, zip it into a light sleeping bag or it into a tube that you can wear while you stand or walk. While it won't fit in a pocket it can be contained in a pretty small daypack, and it gives you enough capability to cover you immediate need for shelter, a means to actually store and sanitize water and to get a fire going pretty reliably.

_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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