#292244 - 05/03/19 01:25 PM
Picacho Peak fatality
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/teen-d...fice/ar-AAAQ0wMThis really sucks! Picacho Peak is a very prominent spire, highly visible just west of I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix. The trail to the top is short and steep, but non-technical and rather easy. First rule of Arizona hiking. Be sure of your water supply and carry sufficient for your endeavor and prevailing conditions. Who, if anyone, was in charge???
Edited by hikermor (05/03/19 01:26 PM)
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#292245 - 05/03/19 02:46 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
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#292247 - 05/04/19 06:24 AM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
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How awful! They definitely weren't very well prepared.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#292248 - 05/04/19 04:27 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
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I find carrying water to be one of the most difficult aspects of hiking. Its VERY heavy and the containers are often less than convenient/comfortable to carry. Even worse to hand carry or strap over a shoulder. Plus, placed in a pack/bag they bring a risk of leaking onto other gear.
I never found anything better than using 1 liter Lexan bottles, but always worry about them leaking, so I single or double bag them in gallon size ziplock bags, depending on what else is in the pack/bag. Never found a flexible container I trusted.
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#292249 - 05/04/19 04:41 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: Phaedrus]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...ite/1094875001/A few-more details. A group of boy scouts, accompanied by two adults. It is easy to jump on the BSA, but young kids get messed up in the outdoors all the time, as do many adults, for that matter. But not bringing enough water on an easy hike is an elementary error. Neither of these articles mentions the weather conditions, which would be crucial. This incident affects me emotionally, because sixty-one years a similar incident involving Scouts in S Arizona was a life changing experience. Clearly BSA doesn't have a perfect safety record, but who does??
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#292251 - 05/04/19 07:21 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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The hike is trivial - I have done it at least once (maybe twice). There are two trails - one is three miles, the other is two miles and I believe they join near the summit in a sort of via ferrata arrangement with fixed cables. Total elevation gain is about 1,500 feet.
Usually April and early May is a very good time to enjoy the Sonoran Desert - lots of green vegetation and flowers, although things get toasty as May progresses.
I am surprised that there wasn't enough water within the group to prevent any kind of dehydration incident, much less a fatality. A thoughtful group leader would most likely have extra items, mostly FA, but also including extra water.
I assume there will be an autopsy. I wonder if mere dehydration is the only factor in this poor kid's demise. Very sad, indeed!
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#292252 - 05/04/19 08:42 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 258
Loc: Southern California
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things get toasty as May progresses. It was 90º, and near noon. I assume there will be an autopsy. One news source said the autopsy was complete, but I've seen no results Pichacho Peak is a spectacular hike, though. Here's a nice video, including the shot of the sign recommending 2-3 liters per hiker, and lots of shots of the videographer using their hydration bladder. Video of Pichaco Peak Hike Photo of Picacho Peak
Edited by rafowell (05/05/19 12:04 AM) Edit Reason: Updated photo
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#292253 - 05/04/19 08:48 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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Many people with little experience do not prepare properly, regardless of what they were taught. Many also do not recognize the signs of dehydration and hyperthermia. Many, when they do feel something wrong, feel the need to push through, tough it out so they don't look bad in front of their friends. I have seen this many times in many different situations. The adult volunteers should have been more thorough in their pre-hike checks and in their attention to how the kids were doing. Kids don't know, they have never experienced it. Their first instinct is to hide it. Yes scouts are supposed to be learning and taking more responsibility, but even in the military there are certain checks done on troops no matter what their age.
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#292254 - 05/04/19 11:23 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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One thing about desert hiking - you want to do your activity early before the day warms up. In typical low humidity situations, the evening and early morning temps are quite comfortable.
typical start time would be 4:30 AM, finishing by 9 or so. An alternative would be to drive to high country where you are in a different world. T.he Santa Catalinas rise to 9,000 feet, with many very nice trails available.
What is it they say about mad dogs and Englishmen??
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#292255 - 05/05/19 01:19 AM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
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The hike is trivial - I have done it at least once (maybe twice). There are two trails - one is three miles, the other is two miles and I believe they join near the summit in a sort of via ferrata arrangement with fixed cables. Total elevation gain is about 1,500 feet. Given that - even in the desert, even in the heat - I don't see how dehydration could have been the cause of death. It is very sad that the boy died, but I would be more inclined to think it was a pre-existing (but maybe undiagnosed?) medical condition.
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#292269 - 05/09/19 12:53 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: Doug_Ritter]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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This doesn't compute. Two quarts of water consumed on a three mile hike taking four hours and some amount refilled half way...There must be something other than dehydration involved.
It is nice to know that it was 94 in Tucson that day, but Tucson is significantly lower than the state park, although the group would have been dealing with reflected heat off of upright surfaces, etc.
For a typical individual, nearly a gallon of water would have been more than enough to complete this excursion comfortably, provided any degree of adequate hydration at the beginning.
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#292271 - 05/09/19 03:48 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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Seems that normal may not be at work here. There may be other conditions or substances so far unmentioned; Coroner will determine COD.
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#292272 - 05/09/19 11:13 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Addict
Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 522
Loc: Wales, UK
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Reminds me of US journalist Matthew Power. Died of heatstroke after spending a few days walking with Levison Wood whilst he was attempting to Walking the Nile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGpHqccbfuY
Edited by Ren (05/09/19 11:16 PM)
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#292523 - 06/20/19 07:40 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 988
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You can cache water on the way up.
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#292536 - 06/21/19 04:32 AM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: Herman30]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
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289 pounds = 131kg. Oh my, explains a lot. Yeah, unfortunately that's problematic unless he was six feet six inches. It's difficult to carry all that extra weight.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#292580 - 06/25/19 08:13 AM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: Phaedrus]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
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289 pounds = 131kg. Oh my, explains a lot. Yeah, unfortunately that's problematic unless he was six feet six inches. It's difficult to carry all that extra weight. Hi, Maybe its difficult but its not deadly. Ignorance is the most important factor. I'm ignorant Students , esp on Junior Varsity Football Team , work out a lot in high school, lifting weights, team practice, gym class... but they dont learn a lot about dehydration It took a 6 hours hike to overheat/dehydrate. A few others also overheated. All ran out of water None had thermometers None had checked everybody for overheating and dehydration over the course of 6 hours (1-6 pee breaks?) None had icepacks ... https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John_Knox2/publication/49686313_A_retrospective_analysis_of_American_football_hyperthermia_deaths_in_the_United_States/links/0046351f98156f4011 Abstract Over the period 1980–2009, there were 58 documented hyperthermia deaths of American-style foot- ball players in the United States. This study examines the geography, timing, and meteorological conditions present during the onset of hyperthermia, using the most complete dataset available. Deaths are concentrated in the eastern quadrant of the United States and are most common during August. Over half the deaths occurred during morning practices when high humidity levels were common. The athletes were typically large (79% with a body mass index >30) and mostly (86%) played linemen positions. Meteo- rological conditions were atypically hot and humid by local standards on most days with fatalities. Further, all deaths occurred under conditions defined as high or extreme by the American College of Sports Medicine using the wet bulb globe temperature (WBGT), but under lower threat levels using the heat index (HI). Football-specific thresh- olds based on clothing (full football uniform, practice uniform, or shorts) were also examined. The thresholds matched well with data from athletes wearing practice uniforms but poorly for those in shorts only. Too few cases of athletes in full pads were available to draw any broad conclusions. We recommend that coaches carefully monitor players, particularly large linemen, early in the pre-season on days with wet bulb globe temperatures that are categorized as high or extreme. Also, as most of the deaths were among young athletes, longer acclimatization periods may be needed.
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#292583 - 06/26/19 02:50 AM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
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Good point! Even professional athletes occasionally succumb. Years ago NFL All-Pro Corey Stringer died of heat stroke during training camp. You have to keep an eye on hydration for sure!
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#292743 - 07/10/19 05:17 PM
Re: Picacho Peak fatality
[Re: hikermor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 988
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"Normal" fits most people in some situations; what's normal water consumption for a small woman might be a third of what a big teenager needs. Plan accordingly
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