Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#291219 - 11/29/18 03:39 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: Pete]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2027
Loc: NE Illinois
The thread got me wondering about primitive fire starting in less arid regions:

https://www.perfectdayshawaii.com/carol-silva-fire/#.XAAGadtKjmE

Someday I'd like to visit Hawaii!!! Maybe I should start a GoFundMe page??!!

While I find primitive fire starting VERY interesting, to me it takes so much skill and knowledge of local woods that I don't consider it so much a survival skill. Kudos to those who can do that in-field!!

Today it is just seems so much easier and "safer" to carry a lighter and a ferro rod as backup.

Top
#291220 - 11/29/18 05:27 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: KenK]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6819
Loc: southern Cal
Agree heartily. Not much weight or baggage in a lighter and backups. I like matches as a backup to a lighter. In fact, in the really critical lighting situations I have encountered, it happens that I have always used matches and they have done the job.

The real trick is going from the first flame or coal to burning fuel and getting the fire to be self-sustaining.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#291221 - 11/29/18 06:11 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5074
Loc: SOCAL
Lightning is a great way to collect a fire — it’s a gift from Zeus, don’t let it go out. Later, some cave dweller started a fire - probably by accident - and realized he could start a fire at will by striking a couple rocks together, as long as they were the right rocks. So did fire-by-friction come before or after sparks from rocks? Does it matter and who besides an archaeologist would care... (btw, of the above, I made up everything starting with “Zeus”.

I’m not a cave dweller nor a minimalist,

Matches are a great method for making a fire. I used strike-anywhere matches as a kid when the woodstove at home needed lighting. One match and you have a fire. Paper book matches would have sufficed, but I really liked wood strike anywhere matches. These days the chemistry has changed and they’re Strike ALMOST anywhere matches, so they too need back-ups. ...

Regarding back-ups:
At which temperatures (cold) do Bic/butane lighters typically fail?
At which temperatures (cold) do Zippo/naphtha lighters typically fail?

Considering that cold & wet have a detrimental effect on one’s ability to light fires, why carry a primary method of making a fire that is easy/convenient, and a back-up that is in a word, difficult.

Why would anyone consider friction to be a back-up to a lighter? Seriously.

Top
#291223 - 11/29/18 07:29 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: Russ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2742
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Russ
Regarding back-ups:
At which temperatures (cold) do Bic/butane lighters typically fail?

They don't actually fail. They just need to be warmed in your pocket or hand to vapourize some gas. I carry a Bic in temperatures far below freezing and never have been unable to make fire with one.

Originally Posted By: Russ
Why would anyone consider friction to be a back-up to a lighter? Seriously.

It's not about stuff, it's about skills. Practicing primitive fire techniques makes you a much better fire lighter regardless of the method at hand -- especially in difficult conditions.

Top
#291225 - 11/29/18 08:23 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: dougwalkabout]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5074
Loc: SOCAL
This is where minimalists and I part ways. I can understand going solely with friction or a ferro rod (or a couple of the right rocks) as primary with a lighter as back-up. As you state...
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
... I carry a Bic in temperatures far below freezing and never have been unable to make fire with one. ...
...which tells me that a Bic would make a great back-up, in case the conditions were not favorable to fire-by-friction or spark; or maybe you are down to one hand ...

My primary method for lighting a fire is a Bic and it wouldn’t bother me a bit to carry a second Bic as back-up. It’s really about tinder and fuel.

I found a Bic lighter on the park lawn while walking the dog on a frosty morning; it was cold and damp when I picked it up and then warmed a bit in my pocket and at home. It lit the first time I tried.

Top
#291226 - 11/29/18 10:15 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: Ors]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2742
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I don't think the OP, nor anyone here, has suggested that primitive methods are the recommended solution for making fire. That would be nonsense.

As you say, two Bics cover most situations.

But you still need tinder. Maybe you always have some in your pocket.

But maybe, in a given situation, you don't. And as I suggested earlier, you greatly advance your skills when you experiment with primitive methods, because careful selection and preparation of tinder absolutely determines success or failure. When the chips are down, that applies to Bics as well.

My 2c.

Top
#291227 - 11/29/18 11:56 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: dougwalkabout]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5074
Loc: SOCAL
Yep, totally agree with the key to a fire is in the tinder regardless of ignition source. I do in fact carry tinder, but that’s saved for when I can’t find something in the local flora that will suffice. I have been camping in PNW when finding anything dry enough to call tinder and start a fire was near impossible (campground by Crater Lake, Oregon), it was a cold, wet night.

Top
#291228 - 11/30/18 12:48 AM Re: Primative Firemaking (Rudiger Fire Roll) [Re: dougwalkabout]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 331
Originally Posted By: Ors
Just curious how many here have primative firemaking skills. Bow and drill ll...hand drill... Just wondering who has those chops.

I dont have the chops smile


However, this is where i'd start, very thorough info here
wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/


Graph of Storm's Wood Density and Specific Gravity Data
Quote:
I then graphed this data on a 3D graph. You see a very prominent peak at about a density of 0.38 for fireboard and spindle. but there is another peak at fireboard 0.53 and spindle 0.821.

A Friction Fire Inquiry: Hand Drill


Wildwood Survival • View topic - Chaga bow drill made with a new technique
Bow Drill Using One Hand With Mushroom As Board - Stay Primitive My Friend



Better than bowdrill?

Rudiger Roll - No Ash - No tools - All Natural - Fire Roll Friction Fire - On the spot - Primitive - Boggy Creek Beast

Sir Vival Eats roadkill, eats frogleg from snake stomach , snorkle hunt for ducks, pigs...
Homage to Rüdiger Nehberg AKA "Sir Vival" - Boggy Creek Beast

Rudiger Roll Friction Fire - Boggy Creek Beast 77 videos4,937 viewsLast updated on Aug 28, 2018
Quote:

This playlist includes numerous variations of this method including all natural material performed outdoors. The videos below and their content are a result of my own research and experimentation. It's extremely versatile and easy to learn. This list is not all inclusive. I have used many more plant fibers including Fireweed, Ramie, Flax, various tree and vine fibers.

Rudiger Roll : Natural Rolling Surfaces - Boggy Creek Beast 6 videos 434 views Last updated on Aug 28, 2018
Quote:

Split Wood - Stone - Bark ( and any combination of those).
Play all



Rudiger Roll video 29: Tree Bark Mini Fire Roll . No Tools Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:58

Rudiger Roll video 14 : Split Wood Mini Fire Roll Friction Fire - Primitive - Bushcraft
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:53

Rudiger Roll video 30: Stones Mini Fire Roll . No Tools Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:31

Rudiger Roll using Stones (Rust and Cotton) . Rust Fire Roll
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:40

Rudiger Roll video 21: No Ashes - No Tools . Bark, Stone, Hemp . Fire Roll No Tools or Ash Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:31


Rudiger Roll - No Ash - No tools - All Natural - Fire Roll Friction Fire - On the spot - Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:39




Rudiger Roll : Plant Fibers - Boggy Creek Beast 16 videos 614 views Last updated on Aug 28, 2018
Quote:

These are some of the plant fibers that I personally came up with to use with this method. Flax, Fireweed, and Ramie work good, too. This is not an all inclusive list. I have used many more including various tree and vine fibers.

Rudiger Roll video 5 : Jute Twine - Plant Fiber - Fire Roll Friction Fire Jute Twine
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:56

Rudiger Roll Milkweed demonstration (Asclepias) primitive - friction fire on the spot
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:42

Nettle Fire Roll : Wood Nettle (AKA Canadian Nettle) . Rudiger Roll demo - Deer Dung - Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:42

Rudiger Roll demonstration using Bittersweet Vine ( Fire Roll Friction Fire Vine Natural - Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:54

Rudiger Roll demonstration using Dogbane - Indian Hemp Fire Roll - Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:55

Rudiger Roll Part 9: Raffia Palm - Fire Roll Friction Fire Raffia palm fiber
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:12

Rudiger Roll Part 10: Sisal (Agave) Fire Roll Friction Fire Sisal fiber
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:19

Rudiger Roll video 15 : Yucca - Fire Roll Friction Fire Yucca fiber
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:59

Rudiger Roll video 19 : Poplar bark (Tree bark) Poplar Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:40

Rudiger Roll Friction Fire False Nettle - Fire Roll Nettle - Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:27

Rudiger Roll video 21: No Ashes - No Tools . Bark, Stone, Hemp . Fire Roll No Tools or Ash Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:31

Rudiger Roll video 43 : Hickory Bark Fiber Friction Fire (Tree bark fire roll friction fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:34

Rudiger Roll video 48 : Slippery Elm Bark ( Tree Bark Fiber Ulmus rubra Friction Fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:36

Rudiger Roll video 49 : Kudzu - Wild Vine ( Pueraria montana Fire Roll Friction Fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:26

Rudiger Roll video 52 : Velvetleaf fiber ( Indian Mallow Fire Roll Friction Fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:23


Rudiger Roll - No Ash - No tools - All Natural - Fire Roll Friction Fire - On the spot - Primitive
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:39



Rudiger Roll : Natural Accelerants - Boggy Creek Beast 20 videos 619 views Last updated on Oct 6, 2018
Quote:

These are the best natural accelerants that I personally discovered to use with this method.




Rudiger Roll video 18 : Bracket Fungus - natural accelerant - Nettle Fire Roll
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:51

Rudiger Roll video 20 : Rust (iron oxide) natural accelerant - Rust Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:02

Rudiger Roll video 23 : Dung (manure) natural accelerant - Fire Roll Friction Fire Dung
by Boggy Creek Beast

1:55

Rudiger Roll using a random fungus ( Fire Roll Friction Fire Bracket Fungus )
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:12

Rudiger Roll video 36 : Coffee ( Instant Coffee ) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:39

Rudiger Roll video 37 : Tobacco (Cigar) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:39

Rudiger Roll video 44 : Spearmint - natural accelerant ( Mint Fire Roll Friction Fire mint )
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:40

Rudiger Roll video 45 : Mugwort - natural accelerant ( Herb Artemisia Fire Roll Friction Fire)
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:05

Rudiger Roll video 46 : Orange Peel - natural accelerant ( Citrus Fire Roll Friction Fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:24

Rudiger Roll video 47 : Lavender - natural accelerant (Herb - Lavender Fire Roll Friction Fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:04

Rudiger Roll video 50 : Basil - natural accelerant ( Herb - Basil - Fire Roll Friction Fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:08

Rudiger Roll video 51 : Sage - Natural Accelerant ( Sage Fire Roll Friction Fire )
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:54

Rudiger Roll video 53 : Tea - Natural accelerant - Chamomile, Mint, Green - Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

7:22

Rudiger Roll video 54 : Coffee (regular ground) Natural acclerant - Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:47

Rudiger Roll video 55 : Catnip - Natural accelerant ( Nepeta cataria ) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:22

Rudiger Roll video 25: Coal (sedimentary rock) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:32

Rudiger Roll video 26 : Shells (Calcium carbonate)
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:24

Rudiger Roll video 27 : Antler (Bone) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:40

Rudiger Roll Video 56 : Walnut Husk - Natural accelerant ( Fire Roll Friction Fire Walnut )
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:56

Rudiger Roll Dung - How to make fire with Rabbit Poo - Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast


Rudiger Roll : Chemical Accelerants - Boggy Creek Beast 12 videos 116 views Last updated on Sep 14, 2016
Quote:

Some of the better more commonly available chemical accelerants that I discovered to use with this method.

Rudiger Roll video 34 : Oxygen Absorber .. Fire Roll Friction Fire Rust - Desiccant
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:40

Rudiger Roll video 28 : Battery (Manganese dioxide) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

2:47

Rudiger Roll video 22 : Potassium Permanganate - Fire Roll Pot Perm
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:27

Rudiger Roll video 33 : Baking Soda (Sodium bicarbonate) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:06

Rudiger Roll video 31: Hand Warmer - Fire Roll Friction Fire Rust - Hot Hands
by Boggy Creek Beast

7:01

Rudiger Roll video 32 : Instant Cold Pack (Ammonium nitrate) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

6:32

Rudiger Roll video 35: Soda Wash (Soda Ash)+ DIY Easy Hand warmer - Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:18

Rudiger Roll video 24 : Calcium Hypochlorite (Bleach) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:05

Rudiger Roll using newspaper with chemical catalysts ( Fire Roll battery demo)
by Boggy Creek Beast

7:58

Rudiger Roll - Chemicals & random rolling mediums PT 1
by Boggy Creek Beast

8:06

Rudiger Roll - Chemicals & random rolling mediums PT 2
by Boggy Creek Beast

7:20

[Private video]

Rudiger Roll : Cloth Material - Fabric - Boggy Creek Beast 5 videos 61 views Last updated on Oct 9, 2018
Quote:

A list of commonly available cloth materials/fabric that work with the Rudiger Roll Friction Fire method. I have also used Cotton bed sheets, pillow cases, bath towels, and underwear.

Rudiger Roll video 38 : Bandana (Cotton handkerchief) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

8:22

Rudiger Roll video 39 : T-shirt (100% Cotton T-shirt ) Fire Roll Friction Fire T-shirt
by Boggy Creek Beast

4:15

Rudiger Roll video 40 : Wash Cloth ( 100% Cotton washcloth ) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

3:03

Rudiger Roll video 41 : Blue Jeans ( 100 % Cotton Denim Rudiger Roll ) Fire Roll Friction Fire
by Boggy Creek Beast

5:01

Rudiger Roll Bandana - Fabric used in Nature to make Fire - No "unweaving" - SEE DESCRIPTION
by Boggy Creek Beast

Top
#291229 - 11/30/18 02:28 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: dougwalkabout]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Canada
what I find with a Lighter is that it is below -25c they will work once after you take it out of your pocket and below -40c they might not work at all if you do not light it very quickly after you take it out of your pocket. it is always my first line of fire lighting, that save matches, but they are not totally reliable and at become less so at extreme cold temperatures.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

Top
#291230 - 11/30/18 02:37 PM Re: Primative Firemaking [Re: BruceZed]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1473
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: BruceZed
what I find with a Lighter is that it is below -25c they will work once after you take it out of your pocket and below -40c they might not work at all if you do not light it very quickly after you take it out of your pocket. it is always my first line of fire lighting, that save matches, but they are not totally reliable and at become less so at extreme cold temperatures.


My experience mirrors this.

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
June
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Who's Online
1 registered (Phaedrus), 230 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mollerstrom, Louis, tomuchgear, salomoncrosk, Claire
5283 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Picacho Peak fatality
by Herman30
Today at 03:30 AM
Regarding emergent communications
by DaveL
Yesterday at 09:05 PM
Equipped to Provide First Aid
by chaosmagnet
Yesterday at 12:51 PM
the wrong boat on the wrong lake...
by WesleyH
Yesterday at 05:05 AM
Cell phones & Other Electronics
by Burncycle
Yesterday at 04:28 AM
A non camping GHB/ BOB
by Montanero
06/18/19 01:14 AM
Shelter options for backcountry day hikes
by teacher
06/17/19 05:20 PM
The Best Thing Since Doug Ritter's PSP?
by Phaedrus
06/16/19 09:56 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.