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#291085 - 11/13/18 04:45 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: TeacherRO]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
I am taking a look at the map of the fires on Google, this morning. Tuesday. I look at it each morning and night. It is difficult to say, but the fire perimeter does not seem to have moved. That conflicts with 'reality' because the news says that the fire (Wolsey fire) is only 30% contained. It would be very helpful if Google showed its map with two-colors. A blue zone that marks the perimeter of the fire yesterday, and a red zone that marks todays perimeter.

I can say that the Santa Ana winds here in So Cal are the strongest that I have ever seen them. We live in the mountains, so we see the winds directly. The wind gusts are very powerful, certainly as high as 40 mph, and I would guess that some gusts may be up to 50 mph. That is certainly making the conditions for fire fighting very difficult in So. California.

Authorities are investigating whether these fires started from power lines that were swaying in the winds, and creating sparks. That is surprising. It has certainly happened in the past, but our utility companies are getting smarter. They now shut down power to regions where there are strong winds. But maybe their info is not completely accurate.


Edited by Pete (11/13/18 04:54 PM)

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#291086 - 11/13/18 05:15 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: Pete]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The article I read indicated the winds at the point of failure may have been higher than at where the wind speeds are measured. Why Did The Catastrophic Camp Fire Start Where It Did? It’s informed speculation, but possibly correct.

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#291093 - 11/14/18 02:31 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: Pete]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Pete
"I’d say a few controlled burns are in order"

its essential.
i dont know how political it is. its the one strategy that might save California at this time. best done in winter. i hope they go ahead with it.

thanks for the comment.


Controlled burns are currently in use in California and elsewhere, and have been in the forest manager's toolbox for several decades, but controlled burns must be used with great care, when weather and fuel moisture conditions are right. Even then, there can be problems. The last fire on which I worked was an escaped controlled burn on Santa Cruz Island.

there are adverse results from any burn (smoke, charred landscape, etc.) so some people become understandably grumpy.

Even when controlled burns are in use, it takes some time for the results of the policy to become evident.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#291094 - 11/14/18 03:17 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
From what I’ve seen in Malibu, this latest uncontrolled burn seems to show that controlled burns have not been used even close to enough. There may be liability concerns in that if a controlled burn becomes uncontrolled, who gets sued, whose insurance company pays and who is made whole by the state... (warning Will Robinson, political boundary approaching)

There are many opinions as to how fires could be mitigated: from let mother nature take its course, to stop all fires immediately at whatever cost; but allowing fuel to build up over years/decades and then having a spark from a high voltage line ignite that fuel during a Santa Ana (hot, dry, high winds) is probably not the best option. That said, it seems the let mother nature run its course, while we valiantly attempt to gain control is the option that has been chosen. Let PG&E’s insurance company pay...

We in the popcorn gallery seem to have no say.

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#291095 - 11/14/18 03:41 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: TeacherRO]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
A family member’s house was destroyed years ago by a controlled burn that went wrong.

I suspect that there’s a lot of room for improvement in policy over where houses are built, fire breaks, and the like.

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#291096 - 11/14/18 05:08 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Part of the problem is that the urban/semi urban development is expanding into the wildland-urban interface (WUI). You have a beautiful scenic setting, surrounded by fire ready kindling. Typically access and egress is at least moderately difficult.

Years ago (1956) I had my first job fighting forest fires in Arizona. I remember that our instructor remarked then that fighting fires in California chaparral was the most dangerous environment. The situation hasn't changed, except for more development in the WUI.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#291097 - 11/14/18 05:12 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: TeacherRO]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Good point Hikermor. It is a very dangerous situation for the firefighters. Today, Wednesday, the Santa Ana winds are still very strong. This is a very tough week for everyone involved in the firefighting effort. Congratulations to them for their great efforts!


Edited by Pete (11/14/18 05:12 PM)

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#291098 - 11/14/18 05:20 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: TeacherRO]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2946
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
I don't know if there is anything that can be done except clear the land. I'm not talking about a controlled burn.

The trees that the forest fires have destroyed could have been put to good use. I am aware that there are people who object to that. To them, I say: We can either clear some trees or you can watch as California burns. It's your call.

As much as I want to comment on what I think their response would be; we have to leave politics out of it.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#291099 - 11/14/18 05:36 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2946
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Deleted.


Edited by chaosmagnet (11/16/18 12:50 AM)
Edit Reason: community standards
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#291100 - 11/14/18 05:43 PM Re: California Wildfires- Nov. [Re: TeacherRO]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Here is a new story from N. California. This story explains why the problem was so serious there, and why many people could not escape the fire. One lady hid overnight, by submerging herself (and her dogs) in a pond in the neighbor's backyard.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/c...4055154134.html

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