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#290254 - 08/17/18 10:46 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: TeacherRO]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2752
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Up on this side of the Medicine Line, we'd say "the bear has the hammer." grin

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#290255 - 08/18/18 12:29 AM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2089
Loc: Colorado
When it comes to bears (actually, ANY wildlife), I am more of a "enjoy from a distance, avoid close encounters!" type person than a "what caliber do I shoot it with?" person.

But I'm just a hiker in the lower 48. If I were a fisherman up in Alaska brown bear country, I wouldn't be looking for the smallest caliber that someone said was effective, I'd be looking for the most powerful thing I could manage to carry and shoot effectively. For handguns, I'd be investigating things like .454 Casull, .460 S&W, .500 S&W, .45-70 Gov, etc. Sorry .357 Mag, I like you a lot, but you're not even at the bottom of my list of choices for bears, you're not on the list at all. I've shot those other large guns, they're not fun "range toys", but I'm not terribly recoil-shy and and hit well with them. On the first shot, that is. The followup shot is more likely to take out a 747 flying overhead though, unless I take the requisite 5 seconds to bring the muzzle back down on target! I'd much rather have a rifle, and a powerful one at that. With bears, it's just better to take camera shots, not gun shots.

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#290288 - 08/21/18 01:27 AM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1112
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Darn facts just get in the way of "common sense".

Grizzly less than an hour from where I live playing in the sprinkler.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/aug/14/grizzly-bear-raids-chicken-coops-chases-sheep-in-n/

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#290566 - 09/16/18 05:33 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
brandtb Online   content
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 314
Loc: S.E. Pennsylvania
Article I saw on another site. Man stops bear attack with Glock 10mm -

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2018/09/man-stops-new-mexico-bear-attack-with.html

Excerpts -

The mesa is not very large. The temperature, even at 6500 feet, was in the upper 80's. The bear and dogs heated up and slowed down quickly. They were fighting on a little bench, right under the rimrock. It was strewn with refrigerator sized boulders, with some cedar trees, good sized for the area, but too small for a bear to climb.

Complacency is the enemy of everyone who works in dangerous situations. People do things hundreds of times. They start taking shortcuts. Bridger normally carries a Glock 20 in a Galco holster, when he is hunting bears with clients.

- - - -

As an after thought, he takes the Glock 20 10mm semi-automatic pistol from his vehicle and shoves it in his waist band behind his cowboy belt. It is loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only has 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of "spring set". He decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

- - - -

This bear never read the rulebook. It does not run. The bear sees Bridger, turns toward him, and flattens its ears back along its head. Its eyes have locked on Bridger. Bridger has watched hundreds of bears in similar situations. He knows he has been targeted. He drops the phone and snatches the Glock from his belt.
- - - -

Bridger does not remember shooting during the fall. His family found shell casings down the trail of broken tree limbs and brush. He knew the Glock was his lifeline. His right hand is skinned and bruised. He holds on with a death defying grip.

Bear and man stop downslope, wedged into brush and boulders. Bridger can feel the bear. He frantically attempts to disentangle. The bear rears erect, jaws ready to strike. Bridger shoots him again, in the front of his chest. Bridger slides/falls further down the slope. The bear pursues him. He screams at Janelle to stay away.

- - - -

He fires. The bear releases his lower thigh, then grabs his calf, just below the knee. The shot missed the spine. Man and bear are moving fast, but in Bridger's hyper aware state, time is slowed. He sees an opportunity for a headshot. He presses the trigger on the Glock.

Click.

End excerpts

As a Glock 9mm carrier I was particularly interested in this -

The magazine only has 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of "spring set". He decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

I Googled it, but could not find anything except ads for after-market springs for Glocks.



Edited by brandtb (09/16/18 05:34 PM)
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Brian Brandt

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#290572 - 09/16/18 07:43 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1562
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Brian... I've been a competitive USPSA style shooter for over 35 years, and yes, springs in general will take a set...but... I've been using the Glock platform since 2005(through about 4 generations of magazines) and never had a feed related problem with a full magazine... that being said I change out mag springs about every 3 years, and empty the mags between matches....to help alleviate excessive torsional fatigue, I do not follow this routine with my carry magazines...I do not routinely load and unload my carry magazines when I practice with the G43, but rather use a dedicated magazine after the original trial period with the new pistol is successful (minimum 300 hardball and 200 hand load JHP with same bullet style as that carried, with the carry magazine and reload)....

not to second guess the gentleman, I think I would load a couple of solids for the first couple of shots...


Edited by LesSnyder (09/16/18 07:45 PM)

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#290573 - 09/16/18 07:45 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: brandtb]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1055
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: brandtb

As a Glock 9mm carrier I was particularly interested in this -

The magazine only has 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of "spring set". He decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

I Googled it, but could not find anything except ads for after-market springs for Glocks.


The spring set probably is not that much of a problem. It mainly is an issue with material and heat treatment. Springs loose some tension when they experience sustained stress beyond a certain level for extended periods of time. For a service pistol that should have been taken in consideration for design. If the set happens you might loose a round or two from your magazine capacity. When you take the pistol to the range for practice, a developing FTF problem should be detected early enough to take measures (i. e. change the spring or the entire magazine).
I have some buddies who are LEOs and have their magazine fully loaded when on duty. None of them mentioned problems with magazine springs.
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#290582 - 09/17/18 11:43 AM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3190
Loc: USA
In general, modern handgun magazine springs will last for years before having any issues. I’ve been told that storing magazines full will have at most a minimal effect on how long the spring lasts, apparently the number of compression cycles has a much greater impact on service life.

There are knowledgeable people who “download” their MSR magazines by a round or two to make reloading easier while the bolt is closed. The practice of not fully loading a pistol magazine is much less common, in my experience.

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#290584 - 09/17/18 02:56 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1112
Loc: Channeled Scablands
The man described later how his choice of projectile was made that day.

" I’m in the off season so there’s “man stopper” hollow points in my glock that was sitting in my truck door. I wasn’t hunting! Exercising dogs remember. For all you “know it all’s” I’m fully aware that those rounds are not bear medicine. I use 220 grain hard cast when I’m actually hunting.

2. The glock did not malfunction on its own. When I smashed it against the bears body I took it out of battery and was clearly my fault. sorry I was a little stressed at the moment! No fault of the pistol. Also the reason he didn’t crash then was I missed his spine. Sorry he wasn’t holding still for me.

[censored] that made the comment about me not holding my ground just simply hasn’t been in this situation. It was either move or he’s gonna run me over! I guess you’d have held your ground anyhow huh?

4. I have great big heavy revolvers. They’re great guns. But as one of you said earlier if this situation doesn’t make you a high capacity mag guy nothing will. I’ll never go “dangerous situation” anymore without one! So I definitely agree on that. No more five shooters for me!

5. No holster because I was just exercising dogs remember? I didn’t even have a gun until wife showed up with my truck. Forgive me for that!

6. And as far as bear spray give me the gun every time. The author here, Dean has basically proven heavily that contrary to popular belief guns are way more effective then bear spray. Do your research and make your best judgment according to your own needs.

Sorry I just had to pipe up because I got angry reading all you arm chair QB’s criticism. This was a spooky gosh dang deal! I apologize to all of you that commented who were cordial and I really appreciate some of your comments. It’s not my intention to offend anyone. It just shows how the internet allows a person to just mouth off with no repercussions. My apologies and y’all can now say anything you want I just had to pipe up a little. Take care!
"

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#290593 - 09/17/18 10:53 PM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: clearwater]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2373
Loc: Big Sky Country
Hi capacity is great but a more powerful gun would have been better. As much as some like to mythologize the 10mm as being a powerhouse the truth is it's a bit weak compared to the heavy revolvers that knowledgeable folks prefer in bear country.

Survival is a pass/fail test! But if graded I suppose the fellow gets a D/D- since he looked nearly as bad as the bear! At the end of the day his head was still attached to his body though unlike Mr Bear.
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#290595 - 09/18/18 02:36 AM Re: Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber [Re: Phaedrus]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6990
Loc: southern Cal
"And as far as bear spray give me the gun every time. The author here, Dean has basically proven heavily that contrary to popular belief guns are way more effective then bear spray."

From an earlier post - enlighten me please...Who is "Dean" and what is the study he is referencing??

I am mostly familiar with Stephen Herrero's work which seems to indicate that bear spray and a clean camp, especially, is effective in stopping attacks.
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Geezer in Chief

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