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#290232 - 08/16/18 11:41 AM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: KenK]
quick_joey_small Offline
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Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 571
Loc: UK
A couple of dollar whistle would have sufficed.

qjs

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#290233 - 08/16/18 01:41 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: KenK]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Yep, I’m surprised that people don’t understand the difference between a PLB (beacon/one-way) and a satellite communicator (satcomm/two way). Different satellite constellations so different coverage. The Iridium network that the inReach devices use is good and they seem to take the SAR role seriously, but it isn’t a dedicated SAR system. As I understand the 9-1-1 function piggybacks on the larger sat-comm system, that should work if you’re within the network coverage.

My hesitation in buying one up to now is that it would be one more way for people to reach me at a time I may not want to be reached. That’s the misanthrope in me exerting itself. However, a beacon that goes only one way and reaches out to a dedicated SAR network is a good thing. That small piece of me that wants to be on my own is suppressed when it comes to survival. So I carry a PLB... and a cell-phone in airplane mode or turned off.

BTW, the full size inReach SE®+ has twice the battery life of the mini.

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#290234 - 08/16/18 02:52 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I am happy to be out of contact when in the hills - that is a major attraction of the outdoors life, although now I habitually carry a cellphone/camera with lots of useful functions.

Certainly a PLB has its uses and it can save lives, time, and resources in wilderness SAR, but, day in and day out, it seems to me that a cellphone does the same. Most people carry one and are within range. I wonder if there are any studies comparing SAR operations, pre and post cellphone era?

PLBs are not foolproof. Look at the instances of people blindly following PLB directions and winding up in isolated, bizarre situations. Nothing beats awareness and attention to your surroundings. Don't blindly trust technology!!

Getting beyond snazzy electronics, which do require batteries which can deplete, simple basic tools can do a lot - signal mirrors, maps, whistles - the classic "ten essentials" modified, if necessary for circumstances.

Most of us have stepped off the trail to perform body functions (there is tangible evidence that a few have not) and found our way back. If, for whatever reason, that is a challenge for you, never hike alone.

The Largay situation is incredibly sad, but her situation is an outlier. She should not have been out alone - its that simple.
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#290235 - 08/16/18 03:01 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I think you meant GPS. The GPS receiver in a PLB is only useful once the PLB is activated and the person holding the PLB won’t know the location sent to the SAR system via the PLB’s signal. A PLB is useless for navigation.

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#290236 - 08/16/18 03:42 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Yup, thanks for catching that. I haven't had enough coffee yet....
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#290237 - 08/16/18 04:48 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The point of all this is properly used, a PLB, GPS or Garmin inReach could have saved Gerry Largay.

Pick your tech. A GPS will keep you found. If you get in trouble regardless and your cellphone can’t connect, you need something with more reach and these days a satellite is the solution — one-way beacon with a PLB or two-way comms with inReach.

Alternatively, you can risk having your name in the subject line of a thread on the Equipped Survival Forum... your choice.

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#290238 - 08/16/18 05:44 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
You make an excellent point, but a key phrase is "properly used."

If you have reasonably adequate equipment and navigation aids, traditional or electronic, you won't get lost, although as Dan'l Boone is reported to have said, you might be "confused" for a bit -BTDT.

The case that triggered this discussion is an extreme example. I don't wish to berate this unfortunate lady, but she clearly had orientation issues, and would have benefited from a companion.

Electronic devices are great, although a tad pricey, but they can be used improperly. There are many reported instances out there.

Whatever you have, use it properly.

I am a Luddite when it comes to this generation of whiz-bang electronics, having navigated for decades using paper maps and compass (occasionally). GPS is highly useful, although even there i have seen the signal distorted in narrow canyons. But GPS definitely reduces "confusion."
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#290239 - 08/16/18 06:51 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
OT (sort of) — My first course in navigation had something to do with the movement of stars, planets, the sun & moon, as well as how currents & tides would effect where you think you are or might be going; celestial navigation was a PITA. Then I got to flight school and the sextant was dropped in favor of TACAN, VOR and radar navigation. When I got to my first active duty squadron, the dedicated navigator still used a sextant on occasion just to keep his skills up, but Loran C & Omega were his primary inputs to the Litton LTN-51and later the LTN-72 Inertial navigation systems, but he also used radar. If we were close enough to have TACAN or VOR available, navigation was transferred to the pilots. Error with any of those systems was measured in miles and the INS drift was at times significant, but we never got lost.

I still own two sextants and take shots of the sun and moon using an artificial horizon, just to see how close I can get to the back yard. There are apps available to crunch the numbers and plot the lines of position — much nicer than 40 years ago. Still, error induced from the sextant sighting and errors in time are measured in miles, not feet. But for where & when you would use a sextant, a few miles is good enough.

12 years after I left my last squadron tour I bought my Garmin GPS V and I never looked back. Accuracy was typically about 20’, 12’ if the averaging mode was used. The US military invested so much in those systems, why not take advantage. My latest GPS is a Garmin Oregon 600 and I’ve never bothered to use its averaging function, it’ll get to 12’ accuracy easily without it. A few feet accuracy is not bad for something you can drop in your pocket.

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#290240 - 08/16/18 07:07 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I took an "Intro ti Sailing Course" some years ago and took a sextant sight. I found out I was in the Pacific Ocean alright, but I had the boat on the wrong side of Santa Cruz Island. Not a good result.

Boating around in the 1980's we used LORAN, which was repeatable if you used the same instrument,but you could not transfer the numbers. Early GPS receivers were expensive, but much better, and what is available now is superb.

Currently i use a Foretrex 101, which is cheap, dependable, and reasonably accurate. No map, but I have a good record of distance covered and the ability to backtrack. Works for me. (along with a paper map)......
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#290243 - 08/16/18 07:37 PM Re: Memory of Gerry Largay ... Please Invest in a PLB! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The Foretrex units are excellent imo. In lieu of a map, consider adding waypoints which are shown on your TOPO map relevant to whatever area you are hiking. Then if need be you can create something of a map using the waypoints. I really like to have different navigation systems set up so they relate to each other.

The Foretrex can work with either UTM or Lat/Long, but I just can’t get my brain to function in UTM so it’s Lat/Long only. Maybe I should learn UTM, but Lat/Long just makes more sense to me.

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