Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#290161 - 08/07/18 11:08 PM Re: Chef knives [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6583
Loc: southern Cal
So where does all of this leave the average knife user, someone like me, to pick a totally random user? Probably better to stay away from belt sanders and sharpen manually with some sort of jig or learn manual sharpening. But then it will be tricky to achieve consistent angles - to say nothing about achieving something as precise as 23 degrees (I probably come close to 23 , plus or minus five degrees or so).

I keep think of my grandfather's and father's ritual knife sharpening when about to process a bunch of fish (both very accomplished - they cut up a lot of finny critters) - a few strokes on a flat stone, using no name knives made from generic steel. Very soon a mess of fish were ready for cooking.

Does the type of steel really matter all that much for the average user? You hear occasionally that the heat treatment is just as important as the steel, if not more so...

It isn't all that hard to sharpen most knives - kind of relaxing, as a matter of fact, so why worry if a blade dulls after a bit of use?

I still have some of my grandfather's knives, mostly his butchering blades. They are well patinated, sharpen up serviceably, and still cut the mustard...
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#290162 - 08/07/18 11:41 PM Re: Chef knives [Re: hikermor]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4915
Loc: SOCAL
I picked 23 because that was the angle of the single sharpening guide I have. That said, I found a set of sharpening guides that can be attached to a sharpening stone with a rubber band. Not as precise a guide as others, but its quick and easy to get it close.

Top
#290164 - 08/08/18 12:16 AM Re: Chef knives [Re: Russ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2719
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Russ
What is the best sharpening angle thats thin enough to dice onions, but tough enough to cut up a whole roast chicken? The Vic Forschner Chef knife was resharpened to 23 per side and it has cut up a whole roast chicken and diced onions.
Is 23 necessary for the chicken? It diced onions okay, but thinner would have been better. What sharpening angle is thin enough for onions and tough enough for chicken bones? TIA


My focus is consumer blades (where there is a desperate need for basic sharpening). I send super-fancy blades to super-fancy shops, where their high priests determine how many angels can dance on the apex of super-hardened steel grin .

I find that it's the overall blade geometry, not just the sharpening angle, that determines the cutting ability of a blade.

I typically sharpen around 22.5 degrees. That supports the edge in mid-range knife steels for long life, and it's an angle people can find with a butcher's-steel-realignment-device: half of 90 is 45, and then half of 45 is 22.5.

But to get that sweet glide-through cutting ability, I put a third bevel on most blades. Essentially, I'm laying the blade almost flat on the stone or belt, and polishing off the point where the edge (secondary bevel) and the main "wedge" of the blade (primary bevel) meet. It takes great care not to scuff up the blade, but the results are very, very nice. Blades done this way glide through onions and survive whole chickens.

The Vic Fibrox chef knives I have seen have a very thick blade. (I've seen other thin Vic's, but not a Fibrox yet) This is typical of basic commercial-kitchen blades that are mechanically sharpened every week or so; it ensures long in-service life, but gives quite a fat profile. The compromise is to lay them almost flat on a slack section of the sanding belt, and the natural catenary imparts an arch instead of a hard angle, improving the cutting ability somewhat. But with some work on a hand stone, the third bevel I mentioned can be achieved, and it will make a huge difference.

Hope that helps. Easy to visualize, hard to paint with words.


Edited by dougwalkabout (08/08/18 12:25 AM)

Top
#290165 - 08/08/18 12:17 AM Re: Chef knives [Re: Russ]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2155
Loc: Great Plains
I don't think the steel is all that important for a home cook. HT is at least as important as the steel but I've prepared quite a few meals at my siblings and parents homes with just whatever junk knives they had in the block. There are a few things that are very difficult to do without the right knife (or the right tool in general) but mostly having a better knife just makes it faster and easier.

A good ceramic hone (such as an Idahone) is ideal for keeping a kitchen knife in good shape. With reasonable care you can keep a working edge on a blade for a long time with just periodic honing on a rod. A leather strop is also good. Both are fairly forgiving of lackluster technique, too.
_________________________
You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. Naguib Mahfouz

Top
#290166 - 08/08/18 01:23 AM Re: Chef knives [Re: hikermor]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2719
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I keep think of my grandfather's and father's ritual knife sharpening when about to process a bunch of fish (both very accomplished - they cut up a lot of finny critters) - a few strokes on a flat stone, using no name knives made from generic steel. Very soon a mess of fish were ready for cooking.


Nice post. As usual, you cut through the clutter and identify the essential.

I can set up a home chef with $20 worth of materials and a few lessons, and they will be zipping through ripe tomatoes for years. A little knowledge and a little feedback change the world.

Aside: koff*muster*koff

Top
#290168 - 08/08/18 04:40 PM Re: Chef knives [Re: Russ]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4915
Loc: SOCAL
Thanks for all the comments. I found myself in a shop yesterday that specializes in kitchen products and they had a good selection of kitchen knives. I was able to see quite a few brands/lines, and touch and use a few of the chef knives. A Japanese style chef knife followed me home FC61 steel, 11-12 (per side) edge, full-tang, good overall feel. For the time being, that will be my knife for veggies (including onions), not for parting out whole chickens.

Top
#290177 - 08/09/18 06:55 AM Re: Chef knives [Re: Russ]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2155
Loc: Great Plains
Nice! I bet you're going to enjoy using it.
_________________________
You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. Naguib Mahfouz

Top
#290179 - 08/09/18 02:13 PM Re: Chef knives [Re: Phaedrus]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4915
Loc: SOCAL
I think so, next time stir fry is on the menu, Im doing all the veggies. Meantime, now that I have those sharpening guides, Im going to redo the edges on all the German steel (Zwilling-Henckels, Wusthof, Victorinox) here to 20 except for the Chef knife previously discussed which will remain at 23; it should hold up better.

Top
#290185 - 08/09/18 10:17 PM Re: Chef knives [Re: Russ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2719
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I think that's a great strategy. A thin blade is joyous to use, but occasionally you need a stout "main battle tank" blade for the rough work. The right tool for the job!

Top
#290196 - 08/12/18 06:28 PM Re: Chef knives [Re: dougwalkabout]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4915
Loc: SOCAL
Interesting read at: Knife Edges 101
Seems that 20 per side for a Henckels, Wusthof, et al is correct, thinner and you risk dealing with a rolled edge. Japanese blade on the other hand are good for 15 and less, but be gentle.

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, chaosmagnet, cliff 
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Who's Online
3 registered (Russ, Jeanette_Isabelle, KenK), 93 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
jackmiller, DaveL, Dale, rac, Boris
5266 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Defense, bear v handguns 97% success, & by caliber
by Jax
Today at 02:09 AM
Best use of time, money
by Russ
Yesterday at 10:44 PM
Funny Photos
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Yesterday at 05:28 PM
Time Capsule
by Jeanette_Isabelle
10/20/18 11:35 PM
Florida residents desperate for food and shelter
by hikermor
10/20/18 05:44 PM
Arizona Mine Rescue
by hikermor
10/20/18 03:59 PM
Folder for Opening Boxes
by hikermor
10/19/18 03:18 PM
get a cheap laptop
by TeacherRO
10/16/18 05:45 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.