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#289884 - 07/15/18 01:11 AM 96 Hours in California Desert
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3217
Loc: Alberta, Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-hiker-stranded-in-california-desert-1.4715729

This solo hiker slipped in rugged terrain, broke her pelvis in a fall, and survived four days until SAR found her.

No-one knew she where she was going, or that she was missing, until her friends noticed a lack of Instagram postings.

Perhaps I'm old school; this does not strike me as a practical strategy. But a win is a win, period.

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#289885 - 07/15/18 02:19 AM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: dougwalkabout]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Agreed, a win is a win, but:

statements like this is the referenced article are highly problematical and at least exceedingly bad information:

"had to drink her own urine — a common survival tactic used to help keep the body hydrated by replenishing its lost water and nutrients."

Drinking urine does more harm than good - she probably survived in spite of drinking urine rather than because of drinking it.

It would be helpful to know the temperatures at her location during her ordeal. Pulling through on three liters is still quite an accomplishment and she was very fortunate. Falls of the distance she fell could easily have been fatal.

Always leave your plans with someone responsible.
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#289897 - 07/15/18 03:00 PM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: dougwalkabout]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3217
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Being immobilized and un-missed, far off-trail, in hot, dry country is pretty close to a worst-case scenario.

She certainly learned some hard lessons, at great personal cost.

It's not unreasonable to suggest that she survived despite the things she did and the things she didn't do. In some ways it's almost a "how-not-to" manual, and a caution to us all.

The "will to live" angle is always interesting. Is that a real factor? Many say it is; but the human body has hard limits when it comes to water.

I too cringed when I read the "drink your own urine" bit. That's very bad advice that will probably make the situation worse. It's irresponsible to promote this sort of thing. Somebody probably saw it on a TV survival show and assumed this was expert advice.

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#289898 - 07/15/18 03:07 PM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: dougwalkabout]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3217
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'm inclined to drop a note to the reporter re the urine-drinking issue. A highly credible citation would be helpful. Does anybody have links to good quality studies etc. that will carry weight?

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#289904 - 07/15/18 04:04 PM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: dougwalkabout]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
The "will to live" is real, and yes, the body has hard limits. However, these limits vary for different people, their health, the circumstances of the event, etc. The will to live is more about keeping people from giving up too early, quitting and welcoming death.

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#289907 - 07/15/18 05:55 PM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: dougwalkabout]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Here is a classic reference: Nesbitt, Paul; Pond, Alonzo; and Allen, William - The Survival Book, 1959 - pg. 204

"Alcohol, salt water, gasoline, blood, or urine - any of these liquids which desert and sea castaway romances say men have tried as substitutes for water -only increase dehydration, because all contain waste products which the body must get rid of through the kidneys." This caution is repeated throughout the book.

On page 14, Table 1-2, the indicate that a "man" (no walking) with two quarts of water in a maximum temperature of 90 degrees F can last for nine days, so this lady was well within those parameters. The fact that she was immobile, and probably of slighter body build would have been critical factors (also liters are quarts on steroids). Maximum temperature is crucial; at high temps, survival time does not increase despite have up to four quarts. Resting and staying in the shade, out of the sun, are critical. Probably her injury paradoxically helped save her...

The source for this table is a 1947 publication - Physiology of Man. I'll bet it is based on WWII experiences and data.

Your notion to contact the author of the piece is excellent! Can I do anything to help you??
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#289916 - 07/15/18 11:34 PM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: dougwalkabout]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
How to avoid this --
1. tell* someone responsible where you are going and when you will be back
2. hike with a friend
3. carry a PLB which are now in the range of $150-250 and are rentable.
4. Plan for mistakes, errors and delays
5. Carry extra food, water and sun protection.
6. use hiking poles


* Write it down - text it?

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#289918 - 07/16/18 02:28 AM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: hikermor]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Two more references about drinking urine;

Larry Dean Olsen - Outdoor Survival Skills, 1967 - pg. 33

"Drinking blood or urine only increases dehydration of the body. it is better to soak clothin in urine to cool the body by evaporation."

FM 21-76 US Army Survival Manual - 1994 pg 5-6''

"Caution: Do not substitute the fluids listed in figure 5-2 for water."

These fluids include:"urine - Contains harmful body wastes. is about 2 percent salt."

also FM21-76, pg3-2 "Do not use sea water or urine under any circumstances....if taken in sufficient quantity, will kill you."

Pretty consistent advice over many decades. I have never heard of any reputable source advocating drinking urine. Did Bear Grylls claim to have done such on one of his shows? Of course, he is hardly a reputable source...


Edited by hikermor (07/16/18 02:29 AM)
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#289919 - 07/16/18 02:55 AM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: hikermor]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I almost forgot. There is this verbiage under "A Survival Primer," posted on the web by something called ETS

"No Substitute for Water
Your next priority is water. You can survive a long time without food, but only days or even less without water. Water is vital to your survival. There is no substitute for water. Never drink blood or urine. They will only hasten dehydration."
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#290249 - 08/17/18 10:00 PM Re: 96 Hours in California Desert [Re: dougwalkabout]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Deserts are a difficult environment to survive in - plan ahead and use caution.

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