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#289302 - 06/10/18 03:47 AM Freeze-dried in a big can
MoBOB Offline
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
I am wondering about those freeze-dried survival foods that are in big cans. It says in the advertising that there are XX servings per can. Are those cans just filled with the product and you take it out like oatmeal; take what you need and put the lid back on? What happens to the product once it is exposed to air? A big loss of shelf life? It seems kinda silly to have loads of cans open.

In general, for in-place making do for an extended period of time (nebulous term), I would stick with canned good as much as possible.

Anyway, any help with this would help. Thank you.
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#289304 - 06/10/18 06:30 AM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
M_a_x Online   happy
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Germany
Often it is as you assumed. You take what you need and put the lid back on. What happens after the can is opened depends on the product. Salt may draw water, fat may go rancid and coffee tends to loose flavour. That would shorten the shelf life. Often there is some fine print on the can that states a timeframe for consuming the product after openening the can. You may have to read the info on the can to find out.
There are products that have a small number of servings in separate packages. Most common around here are mashed potatoes (3 x 4 servings). They may not be freeze dried and come in cartons though.
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#289307 - 06/10/18 01:53 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6364
Loc: southern Cal
I am always puzzled by the popularity of freeze-dried foods, whether in cans or in smaller packets, for "survival." The point of freeze drying is to reduce weight, a huge virtue for many outdoor uses like backpacking or climbing, in environments where water is reasonably common or abundant. When potable water is lacking, freeze dried products are at a disadvantage.

I do have FD foods stocked because I still backpack, etc. but for just plain old domestic disasters I lay in canned goods right from the supermarket. They are cheap, nutritious, easy to prepare (right out of the can, if necessary, durable and heavy, because they contain water, an advantage in many circumstances. The right canned products are essentially civilian MREs, but much cheaper

FD products are really great in the right environment, which is not the typical disaster situation where potable water will usually be scarce.

My strategy for disaster eating is to eat perishable goods first (ice cream!!) and then turn to more durable items as time goes on.
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#289308 - 06/10/18 02:44 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
Montanero Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: North Carolina
Does freeze drying in general prolong the storage life/shelf life of foods?

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#289309 - 06/10/18 03:19 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6364
Loc: southern Cal
I understand that Mountain House, probably the most popular brands, gives a thirty year life for most, if not all, of their products. I believe this is a "best by" date, which means that taste, texture are not noticeably degraded.

Most items can be safety consumed well beyond their best by date. its just that the taste might be a bit off.

Personally, I have consumed a Tanka Bar that was nine years past its date. To me, it was just fine, but take that with a grain of salt, because some have said that my taste buds were shot off in the war.

With canned goods, I would be concerned about leakage or bulging - ditch those pronto...
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#289310 - 06/10/18 04:32 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1738
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
With canned goods, I would be concerned about leakage or bulging - ditch those pronto...

As someone who worked six years in the food distribution industry, I can say this with confidence: I agree with Hikermor.

Jeanette Isabelle
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"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#289311 - 06/10/18 04:34 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: Montanero]
M_a_x Online   happy
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Germany
Drying will in general prolong the storage life of foods. The dehydration will slow the growth of bacteria and fungy. Some common examples are stockfish, salami, ham, jerky, banana chips and pumpernickel. The method may be older than canning.
Freeze drying takes the dehydration a step further.
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#289312 - 06/10/18 04:43 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: hikermor]
M_a_x Online   happy
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Germany
With canned goods there is one exception. Surströmming is not ready before the can bulges. It may be wise though not to buy this food in the first place.
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#289313 - 06/10/18 04:51 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: M_a_x]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1738
Loc: Ocala, FL
Toward the end of our four-year stay with Grandma, Grandma bought a food dehydrator. Grandma tried her new toy with apple slices. My sisters and I ate up the dehydrated apple slices as if they were candy.

There were good times in my life.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#289314 - 06/10/18 05:04 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
Montanero Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: North Carolina
I asked just to aid the conversation. Desiccation has a long history in successful food preservation. As to the original question, once opened, the package has a dramatically reduced life span. Moisture and oxygen will work with the nutrients as a viable growth medium for many organisms. Storage conditions are important.

While I do like cans, even they do not last forever. All food stocks must be rotated, the time interval depending on the food, how it was preserved, and how it was sealed and stored.

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#289315 - 06/10/18 05:12 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6364
Loc: southern Cal
This is very definitely a dry thread, but I have to as, just what is surfstromming (sp?). Sounds tricky, if the can has to bulkge before it is ready...

It might be perfect for those like me, if gas is generated before consumption, rather than after.
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#289316 - 06/10/18 05:25 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: hikermor]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4773
Loc: SOCAL
Surströmming appears to be "sour herring".

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#289318 - 06/10/18 05:31 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: hikermor]
M_a_x Online   happy
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Germany
Surströmming is fermented baltic herring. It is canned before the fermenting has finished and continues to ferment after canning. This is why the can bulges.
If you plan to try it, plan for an outdoors event like a pickinic. It is not recommended serving it indoors.
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If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#289319 - 06/10/18 05:44 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: M_a_x]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6364
Loc: southern Cal
Thanks for the explanation. I chuckle at my southern California orientedmisspelling of the item (surf=surts)
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#289320 - 06/10/18 05:46 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: North Carolina
Sounds like I need to get some to open up at times I really don't want to be where I am, and being asked to leave would be welcome. You know, those "required" social functions that you hate.

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#289321 - 06/10/18 06:20 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: Montanero]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4773
Loc: SOCAL

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#289324 - 06/10/18 07:05 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: Russ]
M_a_x Online   happy
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Germany
That looks like that guy should have watched a tutorial first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGRyr8yIo9w: How to eat Surströmming
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#289325 - 06/10/18 07:15 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Thank you, one and all, for your comments. I am leaning more towards the canned and rotating stock vs the FD cans for in-place situations. I am sure there is a place for the FD, I just have to figure it out. Having the two options for dealing hunger cannot be a bad thing. It will come down to how much do I need for how long?
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#289327 - 06/10/18 08:39 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1715
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I am always puzzled by the popularity of freeze-dried foods, whether in cans or in smaller packets, for "survival." The point of freeze drying is to reduce weight, a huge virtue for many outdoor uses like backpacking or climbing, in environments where water is reasonably common or abundant. When potable water is lacking, freeze dried products are at a disadvantage.

I do have FD foods stocked because I still backpack, etc. but for just plain old domestic disasters I lay in canned goods right from the supermarket. They are cheap, nutritious, easy to prepare (right out of the can, if necessary, durable and heavy, because they contain water, an advantage in many circumstances. The right canned products are essentially civilian MREs, but much cheaper

FD products are really great in the right environment, which is not the typical disaster situation where potable water will usually be scarce.

My strategy for disaster eating is to eat perishable goods first (ice cream!!) and then turn to more durable items as time goes on.


To me long storage is important, as keeping a stock of canned food and rotating it is a bit of an issue, as I rarely use canned food. (tomato puree and beans are pretty much the only things I get in cans).

Fresh food does not store long enough for emergency's; so freeze dried or other 20+ year food is a simple buy once and not think about it for 2 decades solution. Bit expensive, but lack of required logistics is also great. Although the new NG-5 are also rated 20 years.
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#289339 - 06/11/18 12:54 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: MoBOB]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1502
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
I've posted this video before, as it changed the way I approached long term food storage of staples... it is long, but LDS are the pros... I now vacuum seal my staples in quart canning wide mouth canning jars, with a jar adapter....

my short term supplies are rotated through their shelf life, and donated to the local food bank as they near best by date... in 2004 I discovered that the "chunky" soups and stews could be heated in a water bath (two families used the same heat source) and eaten directly from the can so hot water other than the heated cooking bath was not needed for clean up

the vacuum canned jars are replaced in their original shipping cardboard boxes and stored under my bed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOLuIApyNPc

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#289341 - 06/11/18 01:06 PM Re: Freeze-dried in a big can [Re: LesSnyder]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6364
Loc: southern Cal
And in an emergency situation, just ponder how many useful applications you can devise for the empty tin cans.

We should hold a contest...
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