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#289211 - 06/05/18 04:04 PM Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
How do we discuss prepping on the Internet without revealing our cards? I imagine every ETS member is a prepper. I don't need to worry about what you know about me. Potentially anyone can see what I post and, if they have the skills, can at least track me to my gated community.

How do we discuss needed information without worrying about zombies and two-legged predators?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289213 - 06/05/18 05:39 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 489
Loc: UK
Jeanette wrote

> I imagine every ETS member is a prepper

Why do you think that? In reality people work together after disasters. If you think society is about to collapse then ok (and if say you were in Baghdad in 2003, you'd have been right).
But how many of us are in that situation?
A collapse so serious people start turning on each other is very rare.
Living as I do in sleepy, mild weathered, politically stable England I can think of no reason to be one.
As you say it seems a contradiction to publicise being a prepper. If you believe 'the starving mobs' will be looking for food, guess who they are going to head towards first?

And the idea of fortifying yourself seems ludicrous. If you never leave the house, maybe. Otherwise any predators will simply wait till you are outside it and bump you off. In the US where these imagined hoards can get hold of guns, even never going out isn't going to help.
Prepping in the sense of getting loads of guns and sitting out armageddon seems a fantasy for people who want to imagine they are mad max. If they really believed it was going to happen, being known as a prepper is the last thing they'd want.
qjs

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#289214 - 06/05/18 06:59 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
I imagine every ETS member is a prepper.

Probably you are wrong about it. I would not consider myself as a prepper in the usual sense. Maybe others wont either.

Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
I don't need to worry about what you know about me.

That may be true for the majority. There might be some sheep with darker wool in the flock (just a prudent assumption, no actual evidence). Then there are the guests and spiders.

IMHO networks like Facebook are much better hunting grounds than ETS anywhere. People there share much more info that can be used to track and evaluate them.

If you worry, categorize information and potential zombies and two-legged predators. Select the info you share accordingly.
Be realistic about the actual risk though.
The greater risk may be lurk in your vicinity anyway. Neighbors tend to spread sensitive info carelessly.
PS: If you are serious about not sharing too much personal info, your name IRL contains neither Jeanette nor Isabelle.
_________________________
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#289215 - 06/05/18 07:13 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
In the US where these imagined hoards can get hold of guns, ...


Thatīs not limited to the US. In Germany the Police confiscates full auto guns occassionally - not exactly something that can be aquired legally there (and maybe in many places in the US).
_________________________
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#289216 - 06/05/18 11:19 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
Why do you think that? In reality people work together after disasters. If you think society is about to collapse then ok (and if say you were in Baghdad in 2003, you'd have been right).
But how many of us are in that situation?
A collapse so serious people start turning on each other is very rare.

In 2017 I thought something significant would happen that year. It didn't. Moreover, I don't see anything happening any time soon. It's times like these when nothing's happening that a rotating stock should be topped off.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289217 - 06/05/18 11:33 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: M_a_x]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: M_a_x
If you worry, categorize information and potential zombies and two-legged predators. Select the info you share accordingly.

You mean filter the information I provide? I did that last year in two threads I started. There was information I withheld that, potentially, could have changed the direction of the conversations.

I had to withhold information and as a potential result, the responses I received were built on a lack of information.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289219 - 06/06/18 08:06 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 489
Loc: UK
(mad) Max wrote:

> Thatīs not limited to the US. In Germany the Police confiscates full auto guns occassionally - not exactly something that can be aquired legally there (and maybe in many places in the US).

Good Point! If it really is a total collapse what are you going to do when a local rogue national guard unit turns up? Got anything to stop a mortar?

I saw a preppers programme and they were testing their container home against .22 rifles.
Sorry the opposition doesn't chose their arnaments based on what will be no use against you.

qjs

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#289220 - 06/06/18 08:57 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
Potentially anyone can see what I post and, if they have the skills, can at least track me to my gated community.


If they have the skills and are willing to rob people during times of crisis, they will use their skills for more profitable enterprises than getting your meager supply of stuff. It really sounds like you guys could use a class on being better criminals.

I'm not worried at all. What do you guys know about me that's worth taking? I have a log that I'm trying to suspend horizontally?

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#289222 - 06/06/18 11:32 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Bingley]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: Bingley
It really sounds like you guys could use a class on being better criminals.

The only thing I'm good at is laundering money.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289223 - 06/06/18 11:51 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 489
Loc: UK
> The only thing I'm good at is laundering money.

You probably just shut down your own thread.
Discussion of illegal activites is not allowed on this website.

qjs

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#289224 - 06/06/18 11:51 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: M_a_x]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1730
Originally Posted By: M_a_x
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
I imagine every ETS member is a prepper.

Probably you are wrong about it. I would not consider myself as a prepper in the usual sense. Maybe others wont either.



+1; Having worked in the emergency management and currently working with them; I see where having lots of things can make things a logistical nightmare. Add one device and you need to:

1) spend money to buy it.
2) train in using it and repeat it, so you won't forget
3) takes time and money to maintain
4) takes up space
5) potentially add hazards

So, although I liked to be prepared, I do so on a rather lean method. So people coming to my place, rather say I have little stuff. As I also have a minimalist tendency.
_________________________


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#289225 - 06/06/18 12:45 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
You probably just shut down your own thread.
Discussion of illegal activites is not allowed on this website.

Good grief. That joke was in response to Bingley's comment about taking a class on being better criminals.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289226 - 06/06/18 12:53 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Tjin]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: Tjin
So, although I liked to be prepared, I do so on a rather lean method. So people coming to my place, rather say I have little stuff. As I also have a minimalist tendency.

For the time being what I can do is top off and maintain a four-month stock of things I routinely use. That and make sure all of my first aid supplies are current.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289228 - 06/06/18 02:20 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
Yes, I mean filtering information. If you feel, that withholding information makes the replies useless, do not post. That may sound harsh, but information managment is part of being prepared too. Be realistic though. As pointed out by others, tracking you down to travel to your home to rob you is a substantial effort for skilled people and probably your possessions are just not worth it. Your predators may very likely come from the extended neighbourhood. The forum knowing that I might own a Winchester 1873 is not much of a problem. A photo in the local news bulletin associating me with a local gun club is a bigger risk. That could create mislead ideas and require some wet works.
I try to limit spreading of personal data. I annoyed some fairly good looking females by doing so. They were really angry when they learned that I donīt date Facebook users.
_________________________
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#289229 - 06/06/18 03:28 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 489
Loc: UK
> Good grief. That joke was in response to Bingley's comment
> about taking a class on being better criminals.


Glad to hear it was a joke (though I still don't get it).
And it's a dangerous one. You just confessed to a crime on a public forum. I thought you were the one wary of what you said. Expect that to come back to you if you are ever in court.
"So Isabelle you are a self confessed criminal".

We had a name for lippy delinquents who liked to joke like that, when I wore blue: prisoners.

"Is it my car officer? No I've stolen it".

"Sierra Alpha can I have a car to the high street, I have a prisoner"
qjs

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#289230 - 06/06/18 03:31 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: M_a_x]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
I lurk on some "survivalist" groups, more for grins rather than any useful information. Typically they indulge in "Mad Max" scenarios which envision a total breakdown of society, starving hoards looting and pillaging, and the virtuous, saintly far sighted preppers having to defend their goods against the unprepped. Hence endless discussions of "How much ammo? What caliber? What rate of fire? etc. etc? OPSEC"

I call BS on all that monkey business. My scenario tends otherwise because I have usually been inclined to assist in times of distress, as a volunteer SAR respondee (which sometimes requires really significant effort) and during a career in the National park Service (which often has very positive aspects). When the next episode of trouble arrives at my doorstep, i intend to patch up my situation, tend to family and neighbors, and then reach out to others to minimize distress and rebuild.

Homo sapiens is a social critter, and we have gotten where we are through cooperation and group expertise. Look at history and you will find that Mad Max scenarios are rare and isolated, and not the way of progress or repair,often a strategy which involves a lot of hard, grinding labor (terribly unromantic and not the stuff of fantasy).

Looking back, working in SAR has been a powerful, positive influence in my life - thank heavens! I just spend a very long day as a poll worker in our primary election and that is my current contribution to a stable, productive society. Most definitely not glamorous.

Will my S&W Mod 28 be enough to hold off the masses, provided they can find my fortified, booby trapped bunker?? Enquiring minds want to know....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#289232 - 06/06/18 04:45 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1111
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I lurk on some "survivalist" groups, more for grins rather than any useful information. Typically they indulge in "Mad Max" scenarios which envision a total breakdown of society, starving hoards looting and pillaging, and the virtuous, saintly far sighted preppers having to defend their goods against the unprepped. Hence endless discussions of "How much ammo? What caliber? What rate of fire? etc. etc? OPSEC"

I call BS on all that monkey business. My scenario tends otherwise because I have usually been inclined to assist in times of distress, as a volunteer SAR respondee (which sometimes requires really significant effort) and during a career in the National park Service (which often has very positive aspects). When the next episode of trouble arrives at my doorstep, i intend to patch up my situation, tend to family and neighbors, and then reach out to others to minimize distress and rebuild.

Homo sapiens is a social critter, and we have gotten where we are through cooperation and group expertise. Look at history and you will find that Mad Max scenarios are rare and isolated, and not the way of progress or repair,often a strategy which involves a lot of hard, grinding labor (terribly unromantic and not the stuff of fantasy).

Looking back, working in SAR has been a powerful, positive influence in my life - thank heavens! I just spend a very long day as a poll worker in our primary election and that is my current contribution to a stable, productive society. Most definitely not glamorous.

Will my S&W Mod 28 be enough to hold off the masses, provided they can find my fortified, booby trapped bunker?? Enquiring minds want to know....
Well said, hikermor! I totally agree!
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#289235 - 06/06/18 05:43 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
Well said. There are scenarios more likely than the "Mad Max" scenario.
A common one is burglars looking for overly filled mailboxes or asking neighbours when their buddy will be back home as they want want to visit him.
I have a mutual agreement with my next door neighbour to empty the mailbox during vacation. I kind of scared him into not telling people when Iīll be home from work or vacation. Planting the idea that they may check out when he is alone in the house so they can make him surrender stuff like his car keys may not be gentlemanlike but it sure got the message home.

That S&W Mod 28 sure is a nice piece and should offer plenty in the rate of fire department. This gentleman puts 12 rounds on a target in less than 3 seconds with a six shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw
_________________________
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#289236 - 06/06/18 05:55 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: M_a_x]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: M_a_x
Yes, I mean filtering information. If you feel, that withholding information makes the replies useless, do not post.

It's not entirely useless. Bare in mind when we are on this subject I would have to withhold information. Thereby a person may tell me to do something I have done; I can't reveal to them I already have. On the flipside, a person may tell me to do something that, for whatever the reason, I can't do or should not do. Again, I may not be at liberty to explain that.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289237 - 06/06/18 06:05 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
Glad to hear it was a joke (though I still don't get it).

Bingley said, "It really sounds like you guys could use a class on being better criminals."

His statement conjures images of credited college courses on being a professional criminal complete with lectures and lab time.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289238 - 06/06/18 06:23 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
I think I came over a little wrong. I apologise for that. I do not mean "do not post at all". Some topics just may not be fit for discussion here because crucial information cannot be revealed.
You are right. You need to apply some judgement. In most cases withholding some information will still yield useful information. In many cases the replies will be useful to others even with the missing pieces.
If they tell you to do something you already did, you got confirmation.
You also need to evaluate the information (which you probably do anyway).
The point is: You do not need to feel bad if you do not give information that you cannot or should not give. Expect others to withhold some information too.
_________________________
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#289239 - 06/06/18 07:08 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I lurk on some "survivalist" groups, more for grins rather than any useful information. Typically they indulge in "Mad Max" scenarios which envision a total breakdown of society, starving hoards looting and pillaging, and the virtuous, saintly far sighted preppers having to defend their goods against the unprepped. Hence endless discussions of "How much ammo? What caliber? What rate of fire? etc. etc? OPSEC"

I call BS on all that monkey business. My scenario tends otherwise because I have usually been inclined to assist in times of distress, as a volunteer SAR respondee (which sometimes requires really significant effort) and during a career in the National park Service (which often has very positive aspects). When the next episode of trouble arrives at my doorstep, i intend to patch up my situation, tend to family and neighbors, and then reach out to others to minimize distress and rebuild.

Homo sapiens is a social critter, and we have gotten where we are through cooperation and group expertise. Look at history and you will find that Mad Max scenarios are rare and isolated, and not the way of progress or repair,often a strategy which involves a lot of hard, grinding labor (terribly unromantic and not the stuff of fantasy).

I believe it is more realistic to look at historical examples, such as a war or (because of the war, runaway inflation or a disruption in the supply chain) food could not get to a populated area. While none of them resembled the movie, Mad Max, often people needed to shelter in place, at least for a while. You may be in a situation where your neighbors don't have food and you only have enough for yourselves and the few people you have taken in.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289240 - 06/06/18 10:00 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
What intrigues me about the SHTF/TEOTWAWKI crowd is their lack of regard for adaptability and "thinking outside the box" when faced with a tough situation - characteristics which are prominent in most real life survival stories, such as the Lone Woman of San Nicolas Island (reputedly 18 years alone, but home court advantage) or Poon Lim, WWII life raft survivor (133 days alone), as well as the plain old "will to survive." For that matter, there is the Donner party, which should be counted as a success, because there were survivors.

What you see on many of these sites are threads with titles like"How Long until Everyone Dies of Starvation," "Knife, Gun, or Both," "Gourmet Meals for Two people without Heat or Refrigeration" (my fave!), "In What Situation would guns NOT be Confiscated when SHTF,"etc).

Yes, wars are tough. I remember WWII as a young kid growing up in the USA - we had enough to eat, although it was often enough pretty ordinary and plain, but a whole lot better than those in Stalingrad during the same fracas.m My point, again derived from historical examples, is that the coordinated, cohesive group will fare better than the hoarding lone wolf. Consider the success of the Mormons in settling the west during the late 19th century....

In general, I go for the proposition that if I unite with and reach out to my neighbors, together we will be able to persevere. Perhaps we shall see how that will work out.

We recently experienced a widespread fire (the Thomas Fire) which burned some homes in my neighborhood. No significant disruption of the food supply, but a good test of individual emergency preps (we did well).

I definitely feel that a more severe test will come with a strong earthquake - disruption of supply chains and services for a significant time, but there will be outside aid in due course. For that eventuality, I do maintain a stock of emergency essentials, good for at least two weeks easily. Due to disruption of the road network, etc. I don't think bugging out will be a feasible option. i will basically camp in my backyard, which fortunately is in SoCal.

I might mention that I have been a firearms owner from childhood and I do own weapons, although not vast quantities of ammo. Violence is a possibility, but other less violent situations are far more likely.

Geographically and sociopolitically, we are a long way from Venezuela. In other locations, I might come to different conclusions.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#289241 - 06/06/18 11:43 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Yes, wars are tough. I remember WWII as a young kid growing up in the USA - we had enough to eat, although it was often enough pretty ordinary and plain, but a whole lot better than those in Stalingrad during the same fracas.m My point, again derived from historical examples, is that the coordinated, cohesive group will fare better than the hoarding lone wolf. Consider the success of the Mormons in settling the west during the late 19th century....

In general, I go for the proposition that if I unite with and reach out to my neighbors, together we will be able to persevere. Perhaps we shall see how that will work out.

I agree. While I have a four-month supply of the things I need, there is a bigger picture. So far our Torah study group has grown to eight people. Also, though I've never used a firearm, I joined the local gun club (membership is just under a hundred) to find like-minded people. I don't want to do this as unorganized lone wolves. This only works if everyone contributes in some way. If a person did not prep, how will he or she add?

Monday I bought a plastic storage container to organize my prescription reserves. For my next project, I need to reorganize my first aid supplies.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289243 - 06/07/18 01:53 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Look at history and you will find that Mad Max scenarios are rare and isolated, and not the way of progress or repair,often a strategy which involves a lot of hard, grinding labor (terribly unromantic and not the stuff of fantasy)


Worth emphasizing! Do you want to do everything yourself, or do you want the neighbors to help you clear the road?

Hikermor, were there actual "Mad Max" situations in history? I haven't given this careful thought, and the closest thing I can think of right now is the nomads. They live in isolated areas in small groups, and if the bad guys come upon them, they have to rely on the strength of their arms to survive. However, nomadic societies are known for hospitality towards strangers. So I wouldn't call that Mad Max at all.

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#289244 - 06/07/18 02:02 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Bingley]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: Bingley
Worth emphasizing! Do you want to do everything yourself, or do you want the neighbors to help you clear the road?

I want to work with people we can trust and can contribute.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289245 - 06/07/18 11:55 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 489
Loc: UK
> were there actual "Mad Max" situations in history?

There was nothing but 'mad max' examples before a few centuries ago. Towns were walled, everyone was armed. No police forces, no guarantee of redress in law.... and violence to wives and children taken as given.

Those who think we live in a violent era, need only look at the modern house to see they are wrong.A less defensible arrangement (only glass blocking entry) is hard to imagine.

qjs

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#289246 - 06/07/18 05:26 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2018
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
And it's a dangerous one. You just confessed to a crime on a public forum. I thought you were the one wary of what you said.

Naaa. We're allowed to make jokes in a free country.

Quote:
We had a name for lippy delinquents who liked to joke like that, when I wore blue: prisoners.

That statement just reinforced my point. Is it really like that in the UK? I didn't think it had gotten to that point yet, where you'd end up a prisoner for telling a joke. I hope this is not true.

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#289247 - 06/07/18 06:49 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 489
Loc: UK
> Naaa. We're allowed to make jokes in a free country.

Of course you are. And lawyers are free to misrepresent it in court. Guess what? Your welfare isn't their top priority when they are trying to prove you owe compensation to their client.

> I didn't think it had gotten to that point yet, where you'd end up a prisoner for telling a joke. I hope this is not true.

It isn't true. That's why I didn't say it. I said a 'delinquent' saying it could expect to be thoroughly investigated at the station.
There's nothing more they'd love than being able to say "I confessed to a cop I'd stolen the car I'd just hot wired and I still got away with it!"

Joe Public would get the cop joining in the joke.

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#289248 - 06/07/18 07:21 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2018
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
And lawyers are free to misrepresent it in court. Guess what? Your welfare isn't their top priority when they are trying to prove you owe compensation to their client.

That is 100% true here too. That's why I would never say a word to the police it I ever was interrogated ("interrogation" meaning potentially hostile questioning, not casual conversation or reporting a crime that you observed). Not a word other than "I am exerting my right to remain silent, I wish for all questioning to cease immediately" without my lawyer being present. That is not because I do not want to help solve a crime, it's that I don't want to be drug into defending myself against a bogus charge.

Here in the US, it is OK for the police to lie to you, but you cannot lie to the police. To make an extreme example, you could be called in for questioning about, say, a stolen car that the thief happened to park in front of your house. The cop asks you what you had for breakfast. Being ashamed to admit that you had a donut, you tell him you had eggs. Technically, that is a crime that you could be prosecuted for. Hopefully you wouldn't be. But it could happen if someone had it out for you though.

In the same vein, anything you say to a cop can be used against you in court. They supposedly tell you this when you are arrested, but I don't have any personal experience with that. The unusual thing is, what you say can be used against you, but it cannot be use for you. It's called hearsay, and is inadmissible in court. There are a few exceptions to that, I believe they call them "spontaneous utterances", but for the most part there is nothing that you can say to a cop that will help you. Nothing. The police can't make things easier for you if you help them. It's the district attorneys that decide whether to charge you with a crime or not, the police don't have a say in that. So it is best to shut up and say nothing. Don't agree to any searches, etc. Shutting up will impede their investigation, I get that, and in a perfect world I would not want to do that. But you are at 100% disadvantage when speaking to a cop, so unfortunately things have come to "keep your mouth shut for your own good". No doubt the cops will imply that you are a criminal and would surely talk to them "if you have nothing to hide". Don't fall for it. Just stay silent. Doesn't matter if you're a criminal or not. The advice goes for good guys as well as bad guys.

But back to the original comment regarding joking about laundering money - I doubt ETS will have to take up a collection to bail Jeanette out of jail any time soon. Any lawyer that tried to bring up an isolated joke on ETS Forums against someone in court would (1) probably be laughed out of court, and (2) end up pissing off the judge and/or jury so badly as to get any case they were presenting thrown out.

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#289249 - 06/07/18 10:33 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: quick_joey_small]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
> were there actual "Mad Max" situations in history?

There was nothing but 'mad max' examples before a few centuries ago. Towns were walled, everyone was armed. No police forces, no guarantee of redress in law.... and violence to wives and children taken as given.


Maybe we have really different ideas about what "Mad Max" means. In ancient, medieval, and early modern periods, many regions had some form of government and economy. Politics was already "international," and so was trade. System of taxation, currency, classes of people to do the necessary specialized jobs (farmers, artisans, scribes, etc.). There was law, and even rights. There was some form of policing, though it invariably served the powerful rather than the powerless. There was an educational system (though, again, mostly for the elite), and institutions for preserving knowledge and cultural legacy. Sure, all this varied from period to period, region to region, etc. But unless you deliberately disappear (the pre-modern equivalent of "going off the grid"), I don't know how likely it was to find oneself in the sort of anarchic solo homesteading with marauding bandits that want to "take your stuff." There were people coming to "take your stuff" for sure, but those were the representatives of the government, and the stuff they took was called taxes.

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#289250 - 06/07/18 11:13 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2018
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Typically they indulge in "Mad Max" scenarios which envision a total breakdown of society, starving hoards looting and pillaging, and the virtuous, saintly far sighted preppers having to defend their goods against the unprepped. Hence endless discussions of "How much ammo? What caliber? What rate of fire? etc. etc? OPSEC"

"Mad Max" scenarios may indeed be extremely rare to non-existent. But still, I'd rather have the skill and hardware to make a 1000 yard shot than not. Besides, it's fun to learn, practice and be able to score a clean hit at that distance! I have more fun thinking about what skills/equipment I currently have and how I could use it in some scenario (oddball Mad Max ones included - fun to think about, if nothing else!) But I don't go out and buy or stockpile stuff specifically for any of these one in a million things.

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#289255 - 06/08/18 12:12 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: haertig]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
If the description of "Mad Max" includes "global scale," then no. I do not believe that would happen. If it were and I prepared for a year, that would only delay the inevitable.

I believe some areas will become desolate; others will not. That's why I want to prepare for at least four months. Four months should be enough to relocate even under adversity.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289261 - 06/08/18 03:14 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Remember what the asteroid did to the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. There is no reason to think there isn't another rock out there with our number on it. That would truly begin a global catastrophe that could lead to our extinction as a species, and the next phase of evolution.

We are tracking close by celestial objects, and we do have the means to divert anything which poses a danger, so that might not be a real problem...,

But that won't stop earthquakes, and I have a ringside seat on the Ring of Fire in southern California, so I try to prep for that. No mirrors ontheceiling, stash water and essentials where they are likely to be retrievable (good tips on this website), and keep alert. I plan to camp out on my property, retrieve material from within my home, and help others, starting with Mrs. Hikermor, if I can.

Historically, fires follow major quakes, as gas lines are ignited and power lines fall. There is a big parking lot across the street and a grassy park around the corner. In a major event, we will probably have to improvise, because emergencies are emergencies because they present the unanticipated.

We do not exist in a vacuum, and help will eventually arrive, by sea and air, if not by land (the roads will probably be a mess, which is why leaving will probably not be an option).

Of course, I might be an immediate casualty, so survivors are welcome to my stash. Please eat the ice cream before it melts.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#289262 - 06/08/18 03:32 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4914
Loc: SOCAL
Ditto what Hikermor said, but I really want to see that diverting an asteroid/comet thing in action before I believe that NASA or some other organization can really do it. Theory is one thing and it’s easier said than done.

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#289269 - 06/08/18 07:40 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2326
Well, don't dress like a prepper.

No 5.11 pants, jump boots and tactical packs. You'll kind of stand out in the board room.

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#289271 - 06/08/18 08:30 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: TeacherRO]
pforeman Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 110
Loc: Iowa
Well, 5.11 polo and pants is my work clothing so I'm not very 'grey' most days. I do keep a 'civilian' set of clothing in the car and can change out when/if needed. I also don't drive a marked vehicle unless at work as I commute to the office - a guy in a Prius is not very prepper (but maybe preppie?) looking.

As my job has me working with a lot of 'prepared' thinking people it's sort of funny in that we all have the same experience of being the neighborhood "expert" and when anything starts to go off-kilter, the guy down the block wants my advice. I try to downplay it but most everyone in our little community knows my work/background and often will reach out to me on issues. It is an OPSEC issue true, but it has also allowed me to be far more aware of my neighbors and who can be counted on if need be.

Paul -

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#289272 - 06/08/18 11:05 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: pforeman]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
I have a couple of pairs of 5.11 pants, which are semi dressy for me these days (retired). I like them because they are cargo pants with inconspicuous pockets, esp. in dark blue.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#289274 - 06/09/18 02:51 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4914
Loc: SOCAL
I bought my first Royal Robbins 5.11 trousers from an outfitter back East in 1985, but lost interest after the company was rebranded to 5.11 Tactical, the word is toxic. After I bought my first pair of RailRiders I stopped wearing RR 5.11 pants — it’s a cotton canvas versus nylon thing. RailRiders ultralight ripstop nylon is very comfortable and great on long walks.

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#289277 - 06/09/18 03:25 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
5.11s are now available in nylon, a very sensible change. I have worn out the earlier cotton versions. Cotton in general is disappearing from my wardrobe.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#289295 - 06/09/18 08:07 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
If we have to shelter in place for a while, is four months enough? If not, would it be enough if the supply chain is only sporadic instead of halted or at a standstill?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289296 - 06/09/18 09:02 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Four months is more than enough for some situations, just right for others and for what is hopefully a few, quite inadequate. So what specific scenario are we discussing?

Certainly even for a cat 5 hurricane, you are fine, provided that your supplies remain undamaged and are accessible. Connected to the mainland, Florida is logistically easier than Puerto Rico. What was your experience with Maria?

If the dino asteroid strikes on the Yucatan coast, as it did 65 mill ago, Florida and a great deal of the US will immediately have no further worries...
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#289297 - 06/09/18 10:05 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Four months is more than enough for some situations, just right for others and for what is hopefully a few, quite inadequate. So what specific scenario are we discussing?

There are a few reasons I can think of such as a long-term shutdown of the power grid, famine and economic collapse; any reason to leave the United States. That in of its self is not a problem for me. A problem I foresee is, for whatever the reason, there is a delay in leaving. The delay could be four months or more.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#289334 - 06/10/18 11:37 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: hikermor
What was your experience with Maria?

Wait. Did you mean Irma? And do you mean physically or emotionally?

Emotionally? Though we live in a gated community, I felt isolated from the rest of the world as if the nearest human was miles away. I experienced anxiety for an hour. However, by night time, I was at such at pease I had the best night's sleep in I don't know how long.

Physically? Power and Internet stayed on. Only 10% of Marion County had power. As for the house, not even a shingle was out of place. It was as if Yehovah was guarding our home. We had a lot of branches in the yard which took a week to clear away.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#290104 - 07/30/18 10:06 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
amper Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 187
Loc: US
I'm definitely not what "preppers" would call a "prepper".

That whole thing seems to be to be a lot of reacationary authoritarian religion wrapped up in a barely disguised veneer of paranoia.

I'm more of a Girl Guide. "Be Prepared", but also "No one is an island". The fact of the matter is, the most important thing you need in a mass survival scenario is community. If you don't have community already, don't expect to spontaneously form one in the event of a disaster, though people will generally surprise you with their generosity.

Every good community expects its individual members to at least take care of themselves, if they can. Nobody likes a lazy freeloader.

I generally tell people that the standard 72-hour preparedness guideline is woefully inadequate, and to keep enough essential supplies on hand to get you through at least two weeks cut off from outside assistance.

In the aftermath of the 2012 superderecho storm, we were without power for a week in New Jersey, with so many trees down that it took crews that long to clear the roads so they could repair the lines.

Granted, if it were a true emergency, I'd have gone out with my truck and hauled trees off the roads, myself, but in most cases, it will take at least a week just for relief agencies to get an organised response together.

So, no, I do not have a year's worth of food, ammo, and magic underwear stashed in my hermetically sealed bunker, nor am I worried about my neighbors finding out that I own water and gasoline storage cans.

I have enough stuff to get by for a couple of weeks without power or food shopping, and an all-band Yaesu FT-100 for communications. My only real concern is that my apartment doesn't have a backup heating source in winter. I've got oil-fired forced air heat. Without power, I freeze, unless I heat with my LP oven.



Edited by amper (07/30/18 10:06 PM)
_________________________
Gemma Seymour @gcvrsa

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#290106 - 07/30/18 10:13 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: amper]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: amper
I'm more of a Girl Guide. "Be Prepared", but also "No one is an island". The fact of the matter is, the most important thing you need in a mass survival scenario is community. If you don't have community already, don't expect to spontaneously form one in the event of a disaster, though people will generally surprise you with their generosity.

I'm a part of a Torah study group and a member of a gun club.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#290114 - 07/31/18 12:54 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: amper]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
I sincerely hope you don't resort to using your oven as a space heater. That is a very good way to die, usually by CO poisoning. Dress warmly and bundle up in layers. That is what mountaineers do in extremely frigid conditions, where a comfortable day might be minus 20.

I share your opinion of what most preppers appear to be,, at least judging from postings on the internet. For my part, I will try and contribute to the resolution of the problem, a strategy I have followed for the last sixty years, both as part of my job, and as a volunteer.

Turning away from problems and hoarding your supplies isn't contributing to resolution of a problem. Sensible cooperation will win the day - witness the Thai Cave situation just one prominent example.

incidentally, where I am, and where i have been, effective resolution of problems occurs much quicker than a week, typically within hours.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#290117 - 07/31/18 02:43 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: amper]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4914
Loc: SOCAL
When I lived in Spain, my apartment was heated with a kerosene space heater. It did a nice job warming my small apartment. It was typical for Spain, uninsulated with single pane glass and it wasn’t well sealed so there was no issue with CO accumulation from the heater.

If your apartment is insulated with double-pane windows you have an advantage. Insulation can go a long way to making an unheated dwelling more livable. If you decide to get something like a kerosene space heater, get a battery operated CO detector at the same time.

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#290132 - 08/02/18 03:33 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
amper Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 187
Loc: US
And yet, I can run my oven for hours while baking something, and it doesn't set off the CO detectors. In an emergency situation, you do what you have to do.

I live in Northern New England. Temps here can easily hit -25F with wind chills of -50F or more. I have personally used an outhouse toilet at -14F. It's very unlikely that I will ever actually need to run my oven to stay alive, but I'm not afraid to bake for two hours at 500F, which heats up the house quite a bit.
_________________________
Gemma Seymour @gcvrsa

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#290133 - 08/02/18 03:38 AM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: hikermor]
amper Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 187
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: hikermor

incidentally, where I am, and where i have been, effective resolution of problems occurs much quicker than a week, typically within hours.


The superderecho was an extraordinary event, but I do like to point out to people that in the space of one year, those of us in the Atlantic City area got hit by Hurricane Irene, the superderecho, and Hurricane Sandy, all three making landfall—or in the case of the superderecho, leaving land—at virtually the exact same spot.

The damage from Hurricane Sandy was mostly limited to the beach areas precisely because the superderecho hit Atlantic County with hurricane-force winds just a couple of months earlier, taking out most of the weak trees. While Sandy devastated the beaches and boardwalks, the inland damage was negligible.
_________________________
Gemma Seymour @gcvrsa

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#290138 - 08/02/18 08:41 PM Re: Don't Reveal Your Cards While Prepping [Re: amper]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Every place has its hazard profile - here in california, earthquakes area great concern - potentially highly destructive and unannounced or forecasted, while we rarely need to bother with hurricanes or tornadoes.

Ofcourse, there is fire, both wildland and urban, probably the most universal hazard - we are getting a good doserightnow.

The lowest temp in which I have used an outhouse was somewhere around -40. One does not linger....
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Geezer in Chief

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