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#288960 - 05/13/18 06:52 PM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: hikermor]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Training and likely injuries in the environment. A lot of kits focus on penetrating injuries, like gunshot wounds with massive bandages, tourniquets etc. Most of my experience has been with fractures, esp. legs, in the wilderness. Hence lots of splints, etc. and emphasis on less obvious trauma (massive internal bleeding, less obvious spinal injuries, and the like.

A good kit should include a stethoscope, BP cuff, good bandages, at least a splint or two (although these can be improvised). Tourniquets and the like if you are around firearms and other mechanisms that will induce penetrating injuries. A C collar will be useful.

In any case, monitor and record vital signs and transport rapidly to definitive care


This is less an EDC and more of a car kit and requires more significant set of skills to use. How would you pare it down to and EDC?

Environment and situations you are likely to encounter are very important considerations. Splints can be easily improvised in many situations, so I do not carry these as part of an EDC, but I do carry at least 2 triangular bandages, and at times an elastic wrap (packed in a flat roll). Tourniquets can be used to help improvise splints as well, just don't put them on too tight.

If I am participating in an event or activity with many other people I will generally carry what Hikermor describes. As an EDC I carry a lot less, a tourniquet, 2 triangular bandages, 2 compressed gauze, a nasal pharyngeal airway, sometimes an elastic wrap. My vehicle carries a kit along the lines of what Hikermor describes.

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#288961 - 05/13/18 11:06 PM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1534
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Montanero... my range trauma kit

CAT tourniquet
(2) Israeli compression bandages...
Olaes compression bandages in the house with extra storage space
NPA with lubricant
Hyfin chest seal and a couple of petroleum gauze pads
quick clotting gauze
Kerlix roll, Kerlix gauze, 4x4s
roll stretch adhesive trainer tape
(8) nitrile gloves
irrigation syringe
EMT shears


I carry a 2x2 Blood Stopper gauze and a couple 2x2 pads in my wallet...bandana in pocket, aspirin on key ring

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#288962 - 05/14/18 12:13 AM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Montanero

This is less an EDC and more of a car kit and requires more significant set of skills to use. How would you pare it down to and EDC?


Very good question. I was actually describing what was my typical SAR rig, which I did not usually carry on a pleasure trip.

Actually, what is the most critical component of all is skill and experience with the problem. My most recent and significant FA situation involved a heat exhaustion situation on Anacapa Island (not exactly convenient to an ER, and like many National Parks these days, there was no ranger or other NPS people present. Fortunately there was a physician in the group and we were able to stabilize our patient (cooling water both interior and exterior) and get her down a 157 step staircase to our vessel. Fortunately, we had enough water and I had a bit of rope to provide a belay of sorts down the staircase.

I am a rusty, retired EMT and the physician, also retired, was a neurological pediatrician. Not the optimum choices for this situation but we got the job done satisfactorily. To a degree, you can predict situations, but you can never be sure what circumstances will arise.

In terms of gear, you will be well on your way with some sort of sterile dressing, wrapping of some kind (bandannas, duct tape), items that can morph into splint-like objects, mild pain relievers (for personal use), band aids and other very basic stuff. It is good to know CPR but in a backwoods setting, other than simple near drowning, your victim is probably going to die.

The ability to summon outside assistance may be the most critical item of all, since rapid transport is often the key to success.
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#288963 - 05/14/18 02:38 AM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: TeacherRO]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
Hikermor, you are spot on (as usual). Training and experience with the environment and circumstances are far more valuable than what you carry. Planning and knowledge of what you will likely be facing is also very critical. What is the most likely problem you will face, what is the most serious? You must prepare for both, but you can't always fit that in your pocket. As with survival, your brain is your most valuable tool, and it must be prepared just as you prepare with equipment and supplies.

Communications may be the most important thing you have, an ambulance has more supplies and ability than you can carry as an individual.

In my experience, the most common problems I have faced are hyperthermia or hypothermia. Those are actually easy to prevent and prepare for.

To Les, for range days I carry a significant trauma kit, just in case. Thank God I have never had to use it during range training, here in the US anyway. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Without getting into a very controversial subject, it does appear to be necessary to prepare youths for penetrating trauma. I provide them with tourniquet, compressed gauze, triangular bandage; along with the basic skills in how to use them. The training they receive includes stopping bleeding, treating for shock, the basic recovery position to help avoid problems with the airway, CPR. I teach them to work in buddy teams when using these techniques as a tourniquet will cause pain (even though it will save a life) and the individual will usually try to take it off. They can also keep the person under control and observation, and move them if necessary.

I also have provided some with this: Door Block

I have tested it on various doors and it works pretty well.

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#288964 - 05/14/18 12:53 PM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hawaii...need/ar-AAxdA4y

A classic case of misinformation - people in Hawaii at risk from sulphur dioxide gas searching desperately for N95 dust masks - ain't gonna do any good at all.

N95s are effective when dealing with dust and particulate matter, but do nothing for vapors. In the recent Thomas fire here and its aftermath, stores were distributing N95s free as the need arose dramatically. I keep lots of N95s handy as I grind away at my daily chores'

Again, knowledge is critical...
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Geezer in Chief

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#288966 - 05/14/18 05:45 PM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: Montanero]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Montanero
Maybe this needs its own thread, but what do you consider a complete trauma kit? What would be a bare minimum trauma kit? I know what I think of when these terms are used, but I would like to see what others think.


For EDC with a normal functioning ems system itís basically:

- tourniquet ( I personally prefer the SWAT-Tourniquet)
- hemostatic gauze (or plain gauze roll)

Sure I would like to carry additional items, but I prefer to consistently carry a minimal kit vs. a larger prone to be left at home.

Basically this gives you something to cover or stuff into a wound and something to create pressure, be it as a pressure dressing or a TQ
_________________________
''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

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#288967 - 05/14/18 09:22 PM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: TeacherRO]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
Know more, carry less, because you can improvise more when you have more training and experience.

I carry CAT and SWAT-T if I am carrying 2 tourniquets. The SWAT-T is very versatile.

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#288970 - 05/14/18 10:12 PM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: TeacherRO]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2946
Loc: USA
My laptop bag trauma kit includes:

  • CAT tourniquet
  • OLAES compression bandage
  • Combat Gauze
  • Nasopharyngeal airway
  • Chest seal x2
  • Gloves
  • CPR mask
  • Duct tape
  • Mini-Sharpie


I am trained on the use of all of these, plus a decompression needle. The needle isn't in my laptop bag kit because I fly a lot, but I keep full kits that include these in my car, range bag, on my person when at the range, and so on.

Over the years I've taken classes from a number of instructors on how to deal with range-related injuries, and I continue to seek out instruction on this.

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#288971 - 05/15/18 12:54 AM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: chaosmagnet]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
My laptop bag trauma kit includes:


I will be much more careful from now on whenever I ask IT for tech support.


Edited by Bingley (05/15/18 02:45 AM)

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#288972 - 05/15/18 02:26 AM Re: At some point, just get a bag... [Re: Bingley]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2946
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Bingley
I will be much more careful from now on whatever I ask IT for tech support.


ROFLMAO I haven't been doing tech support or IT consulting for some years now. When I was doing that kind of work, I tended to have more tools and sharp objects and fewer (a lot fewer) immediate care items.

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