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#288778 - 04/22/18 10:40 PM Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea!
Bingley Offline
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Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
After reading about this guy who's been bitten by a rattle snake, a bear, and a shark -- and somehow survived them all -- I started thinking, "It's been a bit slow on ETS. Maybe I can stir the pot with a discussion on shark defense? Will people argue about it with as much passion as about bear defense?"

http://kdvr.com/2018/04/21/colorado-man-...ar-rattlesnake/

So, shark defense -- should you wear a bell while swimming? Gun or pepper spray? Or maybe the amplified feedback of a homemade hearing aid for your daughter? What happens when sharks rain down upon you during a storm? How will you defend against that? Or what about shark attacks during an avalanche, the kind that puts a damper on your nice alpine ski vacation?

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#288779 - 04/22/18 11:33 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Oh boy, Bingley!! Lots of action on this one, I'll bet. My comment is, Don't spend time on the surface - note that the shark bit guy was swimming, not scuba diving. Attacks on submerged scuba divers are far less frequent than on those on the surface.

Make as little noise and commotion as possible. Get in and out of the water as quickly and quietly as possible.

Be observant, both you and your companion (s). Watch the actions of wildlife around you...

I spent time diving off Point Bennett, San Miguel Island, AKA "Shark Park," due in great measure to the abundant pinnipeds (seals et al) that colonize there. We got in and out quietly and with great alacrity, paying close attention to the activities of the abundant seals around us, who would occasionally approach us and tentatively nibble on our swim fins, just for kicks. But they never sped for the beach, which would have been a bad sign.

In four days of intensive diving, we completed our study of a great shipwreck that was our purpose. I understand Cal Fish and Game prohibits their divers from entering those waters. Too bad, there is real interesting stuff there.

I understand that if you are attacked, your last gesture of defiance should be to bob Mr. Shark right on his nose (good luck with that). Evidently that will cause him to lose interest right away.... Some folks carry bang sticks and there are instances where they have worked, so the story goes...
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#288782 - 04/23/18 01:23 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Arm yourself with a baseball bat or an iron skillet and bop it on the nose.

Jeanette Isabelle
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"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#288783 - 04/23/18 02:04 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Nomad Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 464
Loc: Just wandering around.
I have found it very difficult to swing an object like a frying pan or bat under water. The resistance is greater than I had imagined. Instead, poke, like using a pool cue.

Nomad.

PS. Don't use a bang stick when you are under water.


Edited by Nomad (04/23/18 02:14 AM)
Edit Reason: added bang stick.
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...........From Nomad.........Been "on the road" since '97

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#288784 - 04/23/18 02:20 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4914
Loc: SOCAL
If you’re in the ocean with a shark you’re on his turf so-to-speak — best is to meet half way and just swim with the shark. It helps if you have countless drops, are a world class free-diver and spearfish for a living. Having a low heart-rate is a good thing.

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#288785 - 04/23/18 02:23 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Montanero Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
As much time as I have spent in the open ocean in military training, I have never had a problem with sharks. Seen them, but they never bothered us.

I expect there are many more attacks in shallow water than in the open ocean.

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#288786 - 04/23/18 01:29 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Last night the local TV station carried a story about a surfer bitten by a shark in Australia - fortunately not as bad a bite as it could have been. I understand that a surfer on his board viewed fro below, imitates a seal sufficiently enough to cause a shark to bite.

Aussieland seems to be particularly bad for shark attacks.
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#288787 - 04/23/18 02:18 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Montanero Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
Surfing is like trolling for sharks

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#288788 - 04/23/18 05:36 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
The problem of injuries due to shark attack can be prevented to a large degree by wearing the proper clothing. Stainless steel 6 in 1 chainmail is an excelent choice. Make sure to get rivetted or welded chainmail. Butted ends are only good for show.
Don´t worry about injuring the shark. If it looses some teeth it will replace them in a short time.
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#288854 - 05/02/18 08:40 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Bingley Offline
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Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
Why is it that there is no heated argument over shark defenses, but threads about bear defenses often degenerate into trading of insults? What is it about bears that bring out the nasty in people, whereas sharks cannot? Nor can a host of other much more likely killers: falling, drowning, inattentive driving, getting hit on the head by a falling object...

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#288855 - 05/02/18 01:18 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Bear attacks are dramatic,usually front page news. However, honey bees and domestic dogs kill more people every year, but just don't make the news.

With sharks, the measures are mainly passive and preventive. With bears, firearms are an option (aggressive and manly). A lot of the bear defense debate centers on firearms vs. bear spray and the debates are interesting. While neither is perfect, carrying a firearm appeals to many, bear spray less so. Research (mostly by Stephen Herrero) shows that bear spray is more likely to work.

I own firearms and occasionally carry. My feeling is that most often the weight and bulk of a firearm and ammo could be more effectively used for water, first aid items, extra clothing, etc.

Wild animal attacks are not the most likely form of trouble encountered outdoors - falls, drowning, and bad weather are more likely to cause difficulty.


Edited by hikermor (05/02/18 01:19 PM)
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#288856 - 05/02/18 02:34 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4914
Loc: SOCAL
We, like bears, are mammals and thus an argument could be made that we have just as much right to walk in the woods as the bear, so self-defense is okay if a mean old bear attacks us while we’re trying to play with her cubs.

Sharks OTOH are fish and we are not. The ocean is their home, not ours and if they decide to taste our feet while they so graciously allow us to trespass, that’s okay. If we tease them while out on a surfboard and they mistakenly take a bite thinking we really are a seal/sea lion, that’s the human’s own fault, not the shark’s so the shark gets a pass.

You may have guessed that I’m sorta on team shark when it comes to humans being attacked. I’ve seen the Shark Week video’s of humans touching sharks and the sharks being okay with it because those humans were polite. Ever notice how sharks attack shark cages? Sharks hate to be put in cages and they are instinctively trying to help the humans trapped inside to escape... okay that was a bit over the top, but you get my point. Sharks live in the sea and if we go there, the liability for damages is on us, no reason to make the shark pay for our bad deeds.

Meet Kimi Werner: The Woman Who Rode a Great White Shark

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#288867 - 05/04/18 01:44 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
LCranston Offline
2
Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 172
Loc: Nebraska
Sharks are totally a myth- I have been swimming here in Nebraska for 45 years, and never even seen one....

Lets talk about dangerous animals, like deer, or mosquitoes...

(yes, I know that sharks are salt water only)

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#288868 - 05/04/18 02:36 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: LCranston]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1020
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: LCranston

Lets talk about dangerous animals, like deer, or mosquitoes...

Those animals may well kill and injure much more people than sharks. Around here some people suffered severe abdominal wounds because they found it so cute that the deer rubbed against them.


Originally Posted By: LCranston
(yes, I know that sharks are salt water only)

Actually species like the bull shark roam freshwater too. Jeremy Wade did an episode about that. The episode also featured a horse that has been bitten and almost drowned by a shark well inland in a river.
It may be good to avoid splashing around and not wear anything in yum yum yellow in the water.
I personally prefer to carry small knives in potentially shark infested rivers. It´s much easier to escape to the banks when the blades does not get caught by your legs.
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#288869 - 05/04/18 03:09 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
Mosquitos kill more humans than any other creature.

Ticks are becoming a greater threat as well.

You are much more likely to encounter ticks and mosquitos than bears or sharks. If a tick or mosquito detects you, they will certainly attack, while most encounters between humans and bears or sharks are uneventful.

All threats can be prepared for and managed or avoided, even ticks and mosquitos.

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#288870 - 05/04/18 03:13 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: M_a_x]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: M_a_x

It may be good to avoid splashing around and not wear anything in yum yum yellow in the water.


"yum yum yellow" brings back memories. when I was purchasing my first wet suit, I asked my instructor if color made any difference. He said "not in the slightest." Being essentially flamboyant, and not wanting a drab suit, I ordered a bright yellow suit, with blaze orange butt and knee patches.

Some months later, while diving near San Francisco, I first heard the phrase "yum yum yellow." New information on sharks reaction to color. I was a very alert diver for the rest of the project. And I learned to cherish a dark blue wet suit...
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#288871 - 05/04/18 05:09 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4914
Loc: SOCAL
I’ve seen a number of divers wearing what appear to be blue camouflage wetsuits. is that a shark defense thing or just a fashion statement.

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#288887 - 05/06/18 12:23 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1863
Loc: Emerald City, OZ
Originally Posted By: Bingley
Why is it that there is no heated argument over shark defenses, but threads about bear defenses often degenerate into trading of insults? What is it about bears that bring out the nasty in people, whereas sharks cannot? Nor can a host of other much more likely killers: falling, drowning, inattentive driving, getting hit on the head by a falling object...

The heated bear arguments always start with the same old joke: You don't need to outrun the bear, you need to outrun your partner.

There are no heated arguments here because there are no shark jokes.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#288888 - 05/06/18 02:14 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
Why do SCUBA divers carry knives? To stab their buddy so the shark eats him instead.

It is an old one.

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#288892 - 05/06/18 03:45 AM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
Actually, most of the time because it just looks cool - until you get entangled in something or another (line, kelp, etc).
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#288905 - 05/07/18 04:21 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: Bingley]
clearwater Offline
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Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1048
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Fisherman friend of mine carried a Glock for a time when diving for urchins south of the Farallon Islands outside of the reserve. He got tired of cleaning it, and the sharks are so big he figured it wasn't worth the minor damage the pistol might inflict. Then decided solo diving near all those sharks wasn't worth it either.

Don't some hues of dive suits show up better under water?

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#288907 - 05/07/18 05:54 PM Re: Defense against sharks, the bears of the sea! [Re: clearwater]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6578
Loc: southern Cal
yes, hence the term"yum yum yellow" It seems to be particularly attractive to sharks. Not so sure about other colors, including camo blue, which I suspect is a fashion statement.

When I was diving, everyone wore dark blue or black. Although there are sharks aplenty in the waters off the Channel Islands, most diver incidents and fatalities were from other causes (usually failure to observe the diving tables and other standard protocols). I can only recall one shark related fatality - a commercial urchin diver who had been using a surface watercraft in the waters around Point Bennett, San Miguel Island (AKA Shark Park).
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