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#288097 - 02/04/18 07:23 PM A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty?
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
I’d like to tap in ETS collective wisdom for help in a task that will surely delight most of this forum members: choosing a good knife.

It’ a tradition among me and my friends to go, twice or thrice a year, on a weekend trip to a friend’s mountain house. There, we would usually go on a short hike or two, but basically the entire trip is an excuse to make a big barbecue that lasts for the better part of a day… whistle

Each member of the group has his own duties, and I’m in charge of food preparation. My friend’s house is not very well stocked in terms of cutlery or other kitchen implements, so I got the habit of bringing some basic tools with me. Here I must stress that weight and space are an issue: we are four people traveling in a medium sized car, and every time is a hard task to cram all the supplies in the trunk: clothes, sleeping bags, food (and beer! smile ) for a few days etc. Therefore, I can’t bring a whole set of kitchen knives, and even a full sized chef knife is little too much in my opinion, especially because the one I have at home doesn’t come with a sheath.

So, I’m looking for a very sharp knife to handle basic “camp kitchen” tasks: slicing meat, boning and dicing a chicken breast or a turkey leg, chopping vegetables e so on. It shouldn’t be too big (max 10 inches in length, I think), but must be sufficiently “hefty” to be a good chopper.

But here comes the additional requirement: I mentioned we use to go on short hikes on these occasions, so it would be nice to be able to carry that very same knife for basic field duties: cutting cordage, clearing branches, building a camp fire in case of emergency etc.

Initially I thought a good basic Mora would be perfect for the job, but I confess that I would like something a bit more substantial for chopping… and a tad better looking! I never owned a classic bushcraft knife (something along the lines of a Buck Selkirk or a Helle), with wooden scales, and I like their look very much. The question is: can they fulfill the job of a good kitchen knife for food preparation?

My budget is around 100 USD. I’m from Italy, so I would prefer European brands or US brands that sell internationally.

I would like to hear your suggestions, please!

Thank you very much.

albusgrammaticus


Edited by albusgrammaticus (02/04/18 07:37 PM)

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#288098 - 02/04/18 08:55 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
IMO while the scandi grind on a Mora knife is ideal for bushcraft, it isn’t the best for kitchen duty; it’s too thick. In the kitchen I prefer a wide blade with a full flat grind for slicing — a 6” cooks knife comes to mind. I recently purchased a 5” utility knife (Zwilling) which does a good job of slicing as well as cutting vegetables down to size. But neither of those knives would be good for bushcraft; the blade stock and edges in particular are too thin.

Were it me, I would take part of that $100 and buy a good field knife that would do well chopping in the kitchen. With the rest I would buy a paring knife, and a good 5” utility knife with a full flat grind. The chopping blade will save the edge on the 5” utility knife for slicing meat and cutting vegetables. The paring knife is just handy for small stuff where the larger knives are clumsy.

Nothing specific, there are lots of good knives available in the EU: Mora, Victorinox, Henckels, Zwilling et al.
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#288099 - 02/04/18 08:56 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Give me ten minutes, some cardboard, and duct tape and you will have a genuine HCS (Hikermor Custom Scabbard). Make it sheet plastic and white Gorilla Tape and it will be a HCDS (Deluxe!). Combine that with a Mora and you are good to go....

I hadn't read Russ's comment about a Mora knife before I posted the above. I am a Mora fan (the Mora, the better) and anything more expensive is hard to justify (although not impossible). My oldest was purchased around 1971, used in my shop for eons, and is now my kitchen knife. Mrs. Hikermor doesn't like sharp knives, so my Mora sits in the kitchen drawer for my exclusive use, and it cuts everything just fine and has done so for more than forty years...


Edited by hikermor (02/04/18 09:08 PM)
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#288100 - 02/04/18 09:06 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
I tend to like the stainless steel Swedish Mora knives for camping kitchen work. Their carbon knives are excellent - my favorite Mora is the Robust - but group camping typically involves sanitation with a bleach solution, and for that stainless steel is better suited. I also like that the plastic Mora sheath can be sanitized in the bleach solution, if needed.

For working with meat I'd tend to prefer a slightly longer blade, but if you're going to carry it on hikes then you simply can't reasonably have it too long.

Here is my recommendation:

https://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html

search for the #748-G Allround -- 5-3/4 inch blade, which will feel large in the hand. The sheath is the olive military green, which is not my preferred, but it will be a great knife. $24 + shipping.

Any Mora knife will do just find chopping fruits, veggies, and meat. If you want to do chopping of wood get an axe.

Save your money for other great outdoor gear.

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#288101 - 02/04/18 09:24 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The ZWILLING 5" Utility Knife was not inexpensive. As I understand the “FC61 fine-carbide steel” is supposedly VG-10. Zwilling has a similar line which uses 52100 carbon steel and another line in Damascus for the steel snobs out there. I won’t say which steel I went with, but I’d have a hard time justifying Damascus in a kitchen knife.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
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#288103 - 02/04/18 11:52 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Ren Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 522
Loc: Wales, UK
Personally would go with 2 knives.
Something like a folding opinel for the kitchen duties.

As for camp knife. Lion Steel is probably the most well known Italian knife maker, though budget may exclude them.

Enzo knives are generally well thought of, plus can by them in as kits to drop the cost.

http://brisa.fi/enzo.html



Edited by Ren (02/04/18 11:54 PM)

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#288106 - 02/05/18 08:48 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Thank you very much for all the suggestions!

Ok, you got me here. I fell prey to the “coolness” factor and started this thread to find any reason to NOT buy a Mora, and justify the expense for some gorgeous bushcraft knife with curly birch scales or similar.

Fortunately for me, ETS confirm itself to be a serious, no-nonsense community and the practical consensus emerged. A Mora has all the advantages in my situation: it’s sharp, inexpensive, lightweight and readily available in my country.

I think I’ll get a Mora for the practical uses ahead, and wait for the next holiday season to ask for a finer piece as a gift…

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#288107 - 02/05/18 08:56 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Ren]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
EnZo knives were already on my radar and I really like them, but they're slightly above my budget.

Another Scandinavian brand I'm checking out is Casström, of Sweden. They're cheaper here in the EU than in the US (for once!) but still above my pay grade.

At the moment, if budget wasn't a factor, the classic Scandinavian style is the one I like the most.

Thank you very much.

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#288108 - 02/05/18 09:19 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Thank you very much Russ.

I too heard that a Scandi grind is not ideal for kitchen knives, but here I'm talking about basic food preparation.

I don't plan to fillet a trout or making a julienne with this knife. More like dicing meat and vegetables to make kabobs. The finest tasks I expect to accomplish are removing the membrane from a slab of ribs or cutting thin slices of ham or salami. Nothing too fancy.

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#288111 - 02/05/18 01:27 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Cool, good clarification. Crushing the vegetables in process of making them smaller is acceptable wink
I’d still take a good steak knife though. In KenK’s link above, Ragweedforge, the #277 would be a nice addition.

Yeah, I’ve never been a one knife guy.

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#288112 - 02/05/18 02:58 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
M_a_x Online   happy
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
I used the Scandi grind for hunting, fishing and camp kitchen with good success for many years. I was also good to fillet a trout or even bait fish. The brand I used was Martinii (has nice birch handle).
I switch to an other type of knife when I wanted to have a handmade knife desperately needed a knife with a droppoint blade and laminated scandinavian birch handle.
For kitchen knives Fiedr. Dick https://www.dick-messer.de/ is a good German brand. They have professional grade knives for good prices. Some of the portfolio might fit your budget.


Edited by M_a_x (02/05/18 03:17 PM)
Edit Reason: added paragraph for kitchen knives
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#288113 - 02/05/18 02:59 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Ren Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 522
Loc: Wales, UK
TBS knives are also made in the EU sold here in the UK

https://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/tbs-knives--350-c.asp

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#288114 - 02/05/18 03:41 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
FWIW, my camp knives aren't expensive or glamorous. For the past few months, I've been using a Camillus Les Stroud Arctic or one of my Moras. The LMF is a good kitchen knife for me, and the others work, but I also keep a little $3 Betty Crocker stainless steel pairing knife in my cook kits, specifically for food prep.

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#288115 - 02/05/18 04:11 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: M_a_x]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Thank you M_a_x, it's conforting to know that such a knife could perform well in all these roles.

It gives me more reasons to justify the expense... whistle

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#288116 - 02/05/18 04:15 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Ren]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Thanks Ren,
TBS knives were already in my "most wanted" list, especially the Boar and Lynx models, both of which seem to meet my expectations perfectly.

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#288117 - 02/05/18 04:26 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: bacpacjac]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Thanks bacpacjac,

you are the voice of reason here. I'm aware that a cheap Mora is the perfect knife in the field: sharp, reliable, lightweight and so inexepensive you wouldn't make a big fuss if it got broken or lost.

But I seem to suffer from a condition that I think many other members here share: the fascination for an object that is both functional and beautiful. Something that could last many years and enter in the family's memories and heritage.

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#288118 - 02/05/18 04:30 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
After thinking a bit, I went out to the garage to get my Morakniv Classic No 1 which I’m going to try out as a steak knife, maybe chicken, maybe veggies. It has a thin .08” (2 mm) blade thickness and a nice edge so should do a nice job for food prep. Definitely needs to be cleaned up though, smells like gun oil wink

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#288119 - 02/05/18 04:42 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1177
Loc: Channeled Scablands
10 dollar horse and 40 dollar saddle

7'' old hickory butcher knife. Make or buy your own sheath. And the 1095 steel should work as a flint striker?

https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-Knife-702...customerReviews

Love this review on Amazon

"After having read most of the reviews on this knife, and seeing some videos about it being repurposed for a sort of bush knife, I went ahead and ordered one, just because ...

(Inner voice: "What the heck, it's eleven bucks.")

I have to admit ... when this knife was delivered I was very disappointed on a variety of counts. The grind was ridiculously poor. It was so crude with burrs that when I attempted to slice carrots with it, it was more of a saw than a knife edge. Further, the scales weren't even symmetrical; one was longer than the other.

(Inner voice: "Well, it was eleven bucks. Live and learn.")

I spent an evening in my chair observing it in my hands, turning it over and over and thinking.

(Inner voice: "Well, it IS 1095 carbon steel ... and after all it was only eleven bucks.")

That night, I wrapped it in paper towel and dowsed it with apple cider vinegar and then wrapped that in plastic wrap. I left it on the counter overnight to put a patina on the steel. The next morning when I unwrapped it, it was black with oxidation. A good wipe down left it an aged gray and looking much sweeter. After the wood had dried, I rubbed in some oil.

(Inner voice: "For eleven bucks, this thing is kind of cool now. I kind of like that the scales are uneven. It's ... unique.")

A few days later, I spent an enjoyable, slow, cathartic two hours with a two sided oil stone and put an edge on it that only 1095 carbon can brag about. When finished, it aced the paper and the hair shaving tests. I rubbed in a few more coats of oil into the scales, and then a light coating of oil on the steel. By then I had developed an odd affection, even a love affair with it. Sitting in my chair, turning it over and over again, I realized exactly why there were so many great reviews. It really is a good piece of steel; it's nostalgic-looking, crude but elegant, old-timey ... and it took me to get it to that state of grace.

(Inner voice: "I can't believe this great knife was only eleven bucks!")

Finally, I pulled the trigger and ordered the Ka-Bar 7" leather sheath for it, because any fixed blade you carry needs a good sheath.

(Inner voice: "I can't believe I paid sixteen bucks for a knife that cost me eleven bucks.)

Moral of the story ... for under twenty dollars, and if you are willing to make this into a real cutting tool, you too can discover the endorphin-producing euphoria of falling in love with an Old Hickory, and press it into service on your belt. Sure, it's no high dollar, exotic wood, custom made bush craft model (that you're almost hesitant to use because it's too pretty.) But, it's practical, it's sharp, it's made in the USA and it's all yours.

Outer voice: "And it's ELEVEN BUCKS."


Edited by clearwater (02/05/18 04:43 PM)

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#288120 - 02/05/18 04:49 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Ren Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 522
Loc: Wales, UK
Heh, ok.

Guess you're aware of Varusteleka's knives?

Knives are no frills, but would get a leather dangler sheath with in the budget.

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/terava-jaakaripuukko-carbon-steel/56524


Edited by Ren (02/05/18 04:56 PM)

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#288121 - 02/05/18 05:11 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'm with clearwater -- Old Hickory would be a good choice for a "double duty" knife. They even make a French Chef style (called the Old Hickory Cook Knife"):



https://averageoutdoorsman.com/legendary-ontario-knife-company-old-hickory-cook-knife-returns/

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#288122 - 02/05/18 05:47 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Ren]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Originally Posted By: Ren
Heh, ok.

Guess you're aware of Varusteleka's knives?

Knives are no frills, but would get a leather dangler sheath with in the budget.

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/terava-jaakaripuukko-carbon-steel/56524


I have the 110 version. A simply fantastic knife. If you want one, buy soon, as they often go out of stock, and you have to wait for re-supply. Shipping to the USA is 9.99.

No affiliation, just wildly impressed by this knife.
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#288123 - 02/05/18 05:57 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Calling Phaedrus! If anyone knows kitchen knives, it's him!
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Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
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#288124 - 02/05/18 06:36 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: bacpacjac]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
One thing nice about knives with a scandi grind is how easy they are to sharpen. Now I can compare the Mora to the steak knife (Wusthof Classic) I use daily.

Threads like this one do make us reassess our biases. cool

One other point on the subject of knives cutting meat — a sharp knife cuts very cleanly and the wound should heal more quickly. smile

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#288125 - 02/05/18 06:37 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Ren]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Thanks Ren,
I didn't knew them!
The Woodsknife brand seems particularly interesting.
Even found an Italian site that sells them cheaper than the finnish one!

https://www.passionepericoltelli.com/it/...;submit_search=

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#288145 - 02/09/18 01:42 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: bacpacjac]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
I also keep a little $3 Betty Crocker stainless steel pairing knife in my cook kits, specifically for food prep.



If the legendary knife designer Ethan Becker can co-write what may be the most famous cookbook on the planet - The Joy of Cooking, then I have no doubt that Betty Crocker is one tough outdoor lady!!!

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#288146 - 02/09/18 05:00 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Ethan must be a time traveler then! The Joy of Cooking was written 75 years ago!
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#288147 - 02/09/18 06:00 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
Well, geek that I am, it took me about 90 minutes to rifle thru my old magazine article subject files for the “ on-point” article I remembered. To wit: A Summer 1995 article in Tactical Knives, authored by Steve Dick, a notable custom knife designer, entitled “ Have Knife, Will Travel”. The subject is the perfect “Travel Knife” for adventure travel by intrepid civilians.

Various folding & fixed blade knives are discussed, including kitchen cutlery , camp knives, hunting knives, and Dick’s own special design. One semi-custom Knife which is prominently discussed, as a near perfect Travel Knife, is Bud Nealy’s Pesh Kabz with a 3.5” blade. Coincidently, Nealy’s independent design , is very similar to Dick’s own Travel Knife design.

I have owned & used the Nealy Pesh Kabz, 3.5” blade, for many years. It is indeed a very practical , camp, travel, food prep and general purpose knife. Not cheap, but a very elegant slolution. I have gifted this knife to some special friends and relatives to commemorate important events in their lives. All of them are unanimous in their praise of this lovely and useful tool. I have no connection to Mr. Nealy other than an appreciation of his work.

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#288148 - 02/09/18 10:00 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: acropolis5]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
That seems a very fine blade, acropolis5!

Unfortunately is out of my league, financially speaking.

For my part, I followed the sound advice of many members who chimed in earlier and this morning I found in the mail a Mora 748. 24 Euros from Amazon Italy with free shipping.

The thing won't win any beauty contest soon, but I'm surprised by its lightness and blade quality. The rigid plastic sheat is also perfect for my intended use, i.e. to throw the knife securely in a backpack or duffel for later use at destination.

I'll use this knife as my primary cutting tool while on kitchen duty during friendly outings. But I think I'll start saving anyway to get a finer bushcraft style knife with a full tang blade and wooden scales. The TBS Boar with curly birch scales is currently on top of my wish list (no affiliation, unfortunately... ;))

www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/tbs-boar-bushcraft-knife---curly-birch-12449-p.asp

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#288150 - 02/09/18 10:30 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
This has nothing to do with who hosts this web site, but my favorite larger knife is Doug Ritter's RSK Mk2 Perseverance. It is really a great knife. The right blade shape and thickness for my needs, and I like the Becker handle - not everyone does.

http://www.dougritter.com/dr_rsk_mk2.htm

The blade is 6 inches long, and for some that is a tad big for a bushcraft knife.

I would have recommended the Ritter RSK Mk3 if you want a shorter blade knife, but unfortunately it is no longer made. I REALLY like mine.

Another very nice knife is the Becker BK16. The BK16's blade is wonderful, but some (myself included, though I like mine) may feel that the handle is a bit small.

The Becker BK10 (own an original) and BK2 (don't own) are just too thick for my needs, which is why I like the similar RSK Mk2


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#288151 - 02/10/18 04:50 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Hi,
I kinda got carried away , you've been warned smile


What kind of knives does your local hardware/grocery/dollar/asian/world/restaurant/thrift store sell?
Please take pictures when you visit laugh
Should be able to find something italian (or "world") resembling a mora or old hickory at one of those smile


Your local store/kitchen chef/butcher or utility knife (small 6in chef/butcher, or 5-6in utility) would do well for both kitchen duty and "bushcraft" , even a paring knife would do well, and all would outcut a mora


What kind of knives do you already own?
Please take a ruler and measure the length / width / thickness of both blade and handle (and take pictures:)), also measure weight if you have a scale, and maybe measure the angles/bevel widths for a complete picture laugh

Do some side by side comparative cutting on knives you already own, its the only way to learn what is important/unimportant ; how to actually cut stuff; make sense of knife design/promotion/reviews ; The more you cut and compare/contrast, the more your control/skill increases , the easier it gets to see through the hype/lies/nonsense.
I haven't broken a knife in a block of cheese in 4 years and all it took was 2 chair legs!!




Are the knives you already own sharp / dull?
Sharpen every knife you own, if you own two of the same knife, sharpen only one,
Grab a few onions (or potatos),
some paper boxes (cardboard/cereal...),
some wooden sticks, maybe a broken a chair leg...

Now take 1 minute with 1 knife to cut onions/potato
Next use identical/dull knife and take 1 minute with 1 knife to cut onions/potato
Take 1 minute to write down your thoughts about cutting with these knives, compare one knife to another
Next take 1 minute with 1 different knife to cut onions/potato for 1 minute
Next take 1 minute to write down your thoughts about cutting with this one, compare to the previous knives
...

Next cutting session do the same comparison with paper boxes
Next cutting session do the same comparison with wooden sticks


Is the handle comfortable?
Handle comfort is #1 most important knife feature esp for extended cutting sessions.
With light cutting (onion) you can tolerate a thinner handle.
Moderate/harder cutting (wood) you'd want a full thickness handle (~1inch oval thic, ~4-5inch wide )

How easy are the cuts (how much force)? Blade grind/thickness is #2 most important knife feature.
If you're not doing a lot of cutting, and your handle is decently comfortable, then its not a big deal that cutting an onion in half takes twice as much force with a mora (5lb) than it does with a chef knife (2lb)
If cutting is shallow (making wood feather shavings), then too much thickness is not a problem.




These things below anything sharp can do -- even a shovel -- may not do them well but as long as its reasonably knife shaped , a few kabobs are not challenging even for an axe, though a knife shape is preferable for smaller cuts smile
  • slicing meat
  • boning and dicing a chicken breast or a turkey leg
  • chopping vegetables
  • cutting cordage


Even these things (some of which are a bit vague), anything with a sharp edge can do it -- may not do them well -- it depends what you compare to -- ~6inch blade like a mora 748 is not a chopper/hefty in any sense , but it is fat
  • max 10 inches in length
  • “hefty” to be a good chopper
  • ? clearing branches
  • ? building a camp fire in case of emergency etc


Speaking of a mora 748,
its very thick,
but if you're healthy/uninjured
and not cutting a thousand slices at a time (can be up to an hour of continuous cutting),
it shouldn't matter much

The ease of sharpening "scandi" is extremely overblown,
as sharpening is not that difficult (given good instruction and a little practice)
and anyone can create a sharpening angle guide (replicate the ease of a "scandi") in under 1 minute with household materials
and thinner knives are much quicker to sharpen because they need less metal removed compared to "scandi"



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#288154 - 02/10/18 03:13 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Thanks for your input KenK!

You involuntarily touched a sore spot by mentioning the Ritter Rsk knives. I've been meaning to purchase one or two for years, especially the Rsk 1 Mini, and now that I've made up my mind, they're gone out of production and the Ritter Rsk 1 is on sale for exorbitant prices on Ebay...

The Rsk 2 is indeed a little too big for me, not only for practical reasons but also for social ones. The area where I intend to use the knife is fairly settled and I don't want to raise too many eyebrows by toting around a big blade.
For the same reason I would avoid any "tactical" looking knife.

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#288155 - 02/10/18 03:41 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear
Hi,
I kinda got carried away , you've been warned smile


Don't you worry, one can keep talking about knives for ages... smile

I know this can easily seem like an iteration of the evergreen discussion "If you can carry only one knife, what would it be?". The difference here is that I don't plan to get stranded on a desert island anytime soon, but I would like to have only one knife, or as few as possible, for a very mundane reason: I use to travel 100 miles away from home with 3 friends in a small car already filled to the brim with supplies, and I can't afford to bring my whole kitchen with me.

I'm aware that a single knife can't possibly excel in every task I mentioned earlier. I'll content myself with a good all-rounder.

I think I'll put the Mora 748 on the test for the next couple of outings. Eventually, as soon as I can afford it, I think I'll settle with a two-knives setup, a bigger bushcraft style blade for chopping and a smaller paring knife for more detailed work.


Edited by albusgrammaticus (02/10/18 03:42 PM)

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#288157 - 02/10/18 11:48 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
hikermor Offline
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You could do a lot worse than the item carried by our ancestors during the 19th century - the Green River Knife, which apparently included a bunch of blade shapes, but was generally sturdy,pointy, with a good cutting edge. Many look for all the world like butcher knives. There is a lot of info if you google....

I'll bet your proposed setup will work quite well. Our distant ancestors did just fine with flint and chert cutting tools.
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#288160 - 02/11/18 08:22 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
KenK Offline
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Originally Posted By: albusgrammaticus
You involuntarily touched a sore spot by mentioning the Ritter Rsk knives. I've been meaning to purchase one or two for years, especially the Rsk 1 Mini


I LOVE the Ritter Mk1's and Mk1 Mini's!! I've actually got the original fullsize and mini, orange scaled fullsize & mini, the Mk4 Gentleman's knife, and the limited runs Mk1 D2 and M4. So very sad to see it is no longer available.

I actually have two Mk2's. One I bought for myself when first available (I'd had the BK10 for quite a few years and it just wasn't what I wanted - the Mk2 hit the mark on the head) and the other was a gift from my wife (who apparently didn't know I'd already bought one). Shhhh, don't tell her!!!

Ken K.

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#288162 - 02/12/18 06:06 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Originally Posted By: KenK

I LOVE the Ritter Mk1's and Mk1 Mini's!! I've actually got the original fullsize and mini, orange scaled fullsize & mini, the Mk4 Gentleman's knife, and the limited runs Mk1 D2 and M4.


Rubbing salt on the wound here, KenK... smile

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#288166 - 02/12/18 10:28 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
KenK Offline
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Originally Posted By: albusgrammaticus
Rubbing salt on the wound here, KenK... smile


Sorry!! I would think that used Rittergrips would come up for sale once in a while. Maybe?

Well, I figure when my wife & I have left this world my kids will find the knives and drop them off at Goodwill along with all the other perceived crap. Sigh.

If I know I'm going soon (!) I'll post here so you all can start watching my Goodwill for some great knives at even better deals, because Goodwill also won't know what they are.

Ken K.

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#288168 - 02/14/18 01:19 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Bingley Offline
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I love the perspective that hikermor brings. When the trend is to buy the latest, greatest, most tactical equipment, he's like, I can do it all with flint and some duct tape...

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#288170 - 02/14/18 04:47 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Bingley]
Russ Offline
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Better than average knives do not need to cost an arm or a leg. I’m not sure if it excels at bushcraft and it wouldn’t be my first choice for kitchen duty ...
TOPS Air Wolfe

...but it only cost me a beer (largish stout). Nice piece of sharp steel, sits in the lower drawer, as not new as the day I got it.

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#288171 - 02/14/18 02:10 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
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I admit I like tactical goodies as much as anyone, but there are times when old stuff comes in handy - when for some unaccountable reason, you don't have your trusty blade handy. Stone tools (flint, chert, or obsidian) can be razor sharp, sharper even than the finest steel edge, but they are very fragile and don't last very long. Resharpening is possible and fairly easy, but that is another story...

If you don't happen to be a master flint knapper and you need a sharp edge, just grab a handy hunk if chert and bust it up, selecting a handy sharp edged piece, and slice away. Whole elephants have been butchered in this way.

Really good flint sources were highly valued and widely traded. It is easy to imagine our ancestors sitting around a campfire, hotly debating the merits of Alibates Flint vs. Yellowstone Obsidian, much as we do D2 vs 154CM, etc.
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#288173 - 02/14/18 02:45 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
gonewiththewind Offline
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Originally Posted By: hikermor
Whole elephants have been butchered in this way.



Are you speaking from personal experience? And then wouldn't it be mastodon instead of elephant? Lol.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to find flint, chert, or obsidian in many areas. Sometimes you may need to settle for any kind of rock you can break. It may not be suitable for filleting a fish, but they will chop a tree.

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#288174 - 02/14/18 03:12 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Is it tactical if it isn’t all black and “tactical” isn’t in its name? wink That said, I have an obsidian knife with elk handle and a natural wrap of some type. Got it on eBay for cheap and yes, it is very sharp. Its blade profile would be good in D2.

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#288175 - 02/14/18 04:55 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: gonewiththewind]
hikermor Offline
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Originally Posted By: Montanero


Are you speaking from personal experience? And then wouldn't it be mastodon instead of elephant? Lol.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to find flint, chert, or obsidian in many areas. Sometimes you may need to settle for any kind of rock you can break. It may not be suitable for filleting a fish, but they will chop a tree.


Some years ago, the circus came to town and one of their elephants expired. The archeo professor got hold of the carcass and enlisted some grad students to work on butchering the beast (you will do anything for a good grade, right?). It evidently went pretty well (I was told of this by the prof later). The edges dulled rapidly, but could be resharpened quickly (if you knew what you were doing).

There are bison kill sites where the critters were butchered in great quantities (+100 or more) and if you dig carefully, you find vast quantities of retouch flakes, the result of resharpening efforts.

Still, when guns and knives were available, stone was quickly abandoned. The interest in G&K continues to this day - must be something in the water.

Years ago, I heard a presentation by a Swedish archeo who had been using stone axes. He found that they were actually pretty efficient, especially on smaller trees, but that you didn't swing them like a steel ax. You just nibbled away. A proficient woodcutter had a much harder time adjusting to the new tools than newbie grad students..

Although I am a certified geezer (81 in two !!) mastodons and mammoths were only fossils when I came along.
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#288176 - 02/14/18 05:04 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
gonewiththewind Offline
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I have never butchered an animal with stone tools, but have tried most every other survival task with them. They work, but I would prefer a good knife, saw or axe made of good steel any day.

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#288177 - 02/14/18 05:29 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Well, apparently the Mesoamerican obsidian swords, like the Aztec Macuahuitl, were fearsome weapons, razor sharp and devastating for the unarmored human body.

www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/19/macuah...man-even-horse/

But they were very brittle and couldn't stand a chance in a duel with the steel swords carried by the Spanish conquistadores.

I wouldn't go so far to advocate carrying an obsidian blade nowadays, but I admit I'm more and more attracted by traditional designs lately, not only in blades, but in every tool and utilitarian object.

Just a few years ago I too was mildly caught up in the whole "tacticool" fad, but I came to appreciate simple designs and natural materials. Maybe it's something one realizes with age? smile


Edited by albusgrammaticus (02/14/18 05:32 PM)

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#288178 - 02/14/18 06:47 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
hikermor Offline
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Theoretically, an obsidian edge was the sharpest possible, being only one molecule wide as the blade was split from the larger piece, but obviously very fragile. This assumes good obsidian with no flaws, something abundant in Aztec country.

Today, the bottom of a beer glass bottle is equivalent to good obsidian.

Prehistorically, obsidian from Yellowstone was traded at least as far as Illinois
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#288179 - 02/14/18 07:36 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
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A couple of years ago, we were hiking at the "Big Obsidian Flow", at Newberry Crater, near Bend Oregon. An interpretive sign about obsidian said that in the '70s an archeologist named Donald Crabtree needed heart surgery. He persuaded his surgeon to make some of the incisions with an obsidian blade, and some with a conventional steel scalpel. The incisions made with obsidian healed better, with much less scar tissue than those made with steel.
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#288180 - 02/14/18 09:53 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
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Wikipedia states: "Obsidian is used by some surgeons for scalpel blades, although this is not approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use on humans." - probably OK to use on archaeologists, though...

Crabtree is well known for his work in lithic technology, and this is an interesting development. The real question is the type of steel used in the conventional scalpels - 420HC? D2? 154CM?

Come to think about it, the Aztecs used obsidian extensively in their cardiac work and there is no reported development of scar tissue in that endeavor.
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#288181 - 02/14/18 10:11 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Originally Posted By: hikermor

Come to think about it, the Aztecs used obsidian extensively in their cardiac work and there is no reported development of scar tissue in that endeavor.


And, I might add, no patient was ever heard complaining about the Aztecs operations...

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#288182 - 02/14/18 10:58 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
gonewiththewind Offline
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Off of the stone age tools, but my military gear is not tactical, mine is usually old and outdated and inexpensive. Except my knives, they are very cool, and not inexpensive.

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#288183 - 02/14/18 11:39 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Originally Posted By: hikermor
... The real question is the type of steel used in the conventional scalpels - 420HC? D2? 154CM?...

Sandvik 13c26 among others. IIRC D2 wouldn’t work, carbides are too large/coarse.

As I recall one of the primary attributes of surgical steel is its resistance to corrosion. Blood is very corrosive and repeated sterilization through an autoclave is required. I don’t know anything about that but the buzzwords; apparently an autoclave uses super-heated steam.

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#288184 - 02/14/18 11:56 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
AKSAR Offline
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Originally Posted By: albusgrammaticus
Originally Posted By: hikermor

Come to think about it, the Aztecs used obsidian extensively in their cardiac work and there is no reported development of scar tissue in that endeavor.

And, I might add, no patient was ever heard complaining about the Aztecs operations...

Well, they certainly didn't complain after the Aztec surgery. However, it is possible there were some complaints prior to the operation?
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#288186 - 02/15/18 06:09 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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A growing number of scalpels used in surgery nowadays are of the disposable kind, only the blade or the entire instrument.
They come in pre-sterilized, sealed packages.

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#288187 - 02/15/18 06:16 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: AKSAR]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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If you believe some sources, many "patients" were actually quite eager and honored to be chosen for the procedure.

I guess the moment of maximun commotion would have happened DURING the operation.


Edited by albusgrammaticus (02/15/18 01:24 PM)

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#288188 - 02/15/18 06:49 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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We started with choosing a knife to make kabobs for a barbecue, and ended up talking about Aztec human sacrifices...

Let's hope none of us tries to combine the two topics and starts trading recipes... wink


Edited by albusgrammaticus (02/15/18 01:24 PM)

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#288189 - 02/15/18 04:09 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
M_a_x Online   happy
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Originally Posted By: hikermor
Although I am a certified geezer (81 in two !!) mastodons and mammoths were only fossils when I came along.


Rumor has it that the Russians still have some in their big fridge: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...kyo-woolly.html
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#288190 - 02/15/18 05:00 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: M_a_x]
hikermor Offline
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The degree of preservation in Siberia is astounding, and there is a good chance that mammoths can be essentially resurrected. The bigger question is - What do you do with the mammoth once (s)he is here?

The critter needs an appropriate environment, and the demise of that environment is the reason they went belly up in the first place....A mammoth might be very happy, browsing in an Illinois corn field, although its owner might not be too thrilled.
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#288191 - 02/15/18 05:09 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Yeah, just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should — like using a bushcraft knife in the kitchen... wink
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#288192 - 02/15/18 11:41 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
Russ Offline
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Sometimes when browsing through kitchen cutlery you find something that looks like it should do well in the kitchen and comes with a leather sheath...
ZELITE INFINITY Utility Knife, 6” blade, 45 layer Damascus steel with AUS10 core.

So rather than using a bushcraft knife in the kitchen, this would be a kitchen knife that could be used...in the kitchen. As good as the AUS10 steel may be and despite its having a leather sheath, it’s not a field knife. Maybe in a pinch because it’s the only knife you have, but not because you planned to do so.

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#288193 - 02/16/18 03:56 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Bingley Offline
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Originally Posted By: hikermor
The degree of preservation in Siberia is astounding, and there is a good chance that mammoths can be essentially resurrected. The bigger question is - What do you do with the mammoth once (s)he is here?


Sounds like hikermor is missing the habitat of his youth! Maybe his old pet mammoth will one day be released from the icy prison for a reunion... Probably still remembers how to play ring toss with the tusks.

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#288194 - 02/16/18 04:17 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
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Actually, carving your GF's initials in the tusks was the cool thing to do, and, trust me, it wasn't easy with stone tools. The bronze dagger was a big improvement, and then came the iron age...
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#288195 - 02/16/18 06:18 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
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Originally Posted By: hikermor
Actually, carving your GF's initials in the tusks was the cool thing to do, and, trust me, it wasn't easy with stone tools. The bronze dagger was a big improvement, and then came the iron age...

Was that one of those "Pygmy Mammoths"? Or was it the real deal?
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#288196 - 02/16/18 01:31 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
gonewiththewind Offline
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Did you do it while they were still alive?

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#288197 - 02/16/18 03:39 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
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Generally, you worked with pygmy mammoths until you graduated from high school. Then it was on to the big guys. But pygmies weren't trivial - they were the size of large bison.....

And yes, Montanero, it always meant more if they were alive....


Edited by hikermor (02/16/18 03:40 PM)
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#288198 - 02/17/18 11:09 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
hikermor Offline
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To get back to the original intent of this thread, I nominate the Buck 105 Pathfinder as a really good knife for both out in the boondocks and in the kitchen. I purchased mine in 1972, using it on an extended field project where we camped out a lot, backpacking to our project area, and I just finished using it in the kitchen, slicing up a zillion (by conservative count) oranges.

I didn't use any of the kitchen knives because Mrs. H prefers her knives dull (presumably her husband should be sharp) and the 105 worked just great - its 5 inch blade length made it better for slicing, compared to my beloved Moras....

Anyway, the 105 or something comparable should be handy and versatile. A folding equivalent might be useful, as well, depending upon your local knife laws.
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#288199 - 02/17/18 11:34 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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The Buck 105 is good field knife, and I can see how it would be good in the kitchen. One point in its favor is that it’s dishwasher safe wink

My other half prefers her knives cheap and serrated, or paid for by me. In either case they get used, abused and when done they are shown no love. I put my better kitchen knives away to make room in the block for her serrated blades; it’s safer than finding them by accident tossed in a drawer (the sharp pain braille method). OTOH, she’s a much better cook.

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#288200 - 02/18/18 02:12 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
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How is that women who show such excellent judgement is their selection of a spouse can be so nonchalant when it comes to cutlery?

"they get used, abused and when done they are shown no love."
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#288202 - 02/18/18 03:54 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Priorities. Besides, she knows I’ll take care of them.

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#288203 - 02/18/18 12:29 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
KenK Offline
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When I was a young boy (a long long time ago) my first fixed blade knife was a Buck 119 Special. I LOVED that knife ...

BUT ... I never was able to get a good cutting edge on that knife.

Years later I started buying Gerber knives and those seemed to get much sharper edges. So I became a Gerber fan.

Even more years later I was taking a botany class and had a need to buy a cheap knife for cutting and digging out plants in the field. I went to a local Pamida (seemed like a hybrid between a Walgreens/CVS and a Walmart/Kmart) and bought an odd little black handled knife with a plastic sheath (low cost!) and a funny looking large bladed kitchen knife (even lower cost!) with no sheath (figured I could makes something using cardboard & tape for the duration. Those two knifes took edges like NOTHING I'd ever seen!!! I beat them up and they kept working great!

Many many years later I came to find out that odd little black handled knife with the plastic sheath was a Mora knife with a stainless steel blade. That funny looking kitchen knife was an Old Hickory carbon blade.

I never really went back to feeling confidence for Buck knives, Gerber seems to head in an odd direction, but I became a HEEUUGE fan of Mora and Old Hickory knives.

Was it just my imagination? my incompetence at sharpening? or was there really something about that Buck knife? Are they better now? To this day I have a sweet spot in my heart for Buck ... but still won't buy one.

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#288204 - 02/18/18 12:39 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Thank you very much for your suggestions, hikermor and Russ.

Originally Posted By: hikermor

A folding equivalent might be useful, as well, depending upon your local knife laws.


Italian knife laws are very idiosyncratic, but seem particularly keen against locking folders.
A smallish fixed blade might be more socially acceptable, especially if it looks like a kitchen knife or a gardening tool.

A knife I was considering is the Condor Mini Bushlore: it's cheap, small and has an unassuming wooden handle, a full tang blade of good carbon steel, and a handsome leather sheath.

https://www.amazon.com/Condor-Tool-Knife-Bushlore-Leather/dp/B004WMFI0Y

But it has a scandi grind and a rather thick blade, so it might not be the best choice for food prep. I guess life is full of compromises...

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#288205 - 02/18/18 12:50 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Originally Posted By: KenK

That funny looking kitchen knife was an Old Hickory carbon blade.


Yes, I'm beginning to think that something very simple along the lines of and Old Hickory, or an European equivalent, might be the best choice for me, as many of you wisely pointed out. I'll just need to find and adapt a good sheath for it.

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#288206 - 02/18/18 03:08 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Russ Offline
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So a little on topic and a little off... Mentioning Old Hickory kitchen knives takes me back to my childhood. We had a full set of Old Hickory (not dishwasher safe) knives in the kitchen and they were used and kept very sharp -- a thin 1095 blade can take an excellent edge.

When I was on Amazon recently finding that stainless Damascus blade (AUS10 core up-thread) I looked at the Zwilling EUROLINE Carbon Collection... and while it’s difficult for me to justify spending that on a blade, I was amused by comments regarding the knife rusting. Zwilling’s Euroline were designed by Master Bladesmith Bob Kramer and are made in Seki, Japan using of all things 52100 carbon steel. That is an excellent blade steel but stainless it is not. Those are not knives you can use, abuse and put away wet.

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is that carbon kitchen knives need to develop a (black’ish, dark gray) patina. For any carbon steel kitchen knife I recommend cutting a lot of onions and getting the “juice” all over the blade. Allow the patina to develop, it’s a good thing. $.02

PS: speaking of rust, my OH found a kitchen tool from her past used for tenderizing meat. It looks like a hatchet with multiple dull blades and time has taken its toll -- surface rust, no pitting. Fortunately it comes apart with a wing nut, so I’ll be cleaning it up with a sanding block before finding a better way to store it.


Edited by Russ (02/18/18 03:51 PM)
Edit Reason: Added the PS among other wording issues

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#288207 - 02/18/18 04:33 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
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One of my cherished heirloom items is the 12" chef knife that belonged to my grandfather, hardwood handle, nondescript steel, no markings, but still takes an edge and has a patina that won't quit. It has done a lot of onions in its day. All I have to do is make sure it is dry before putting it back in the drawer.
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#288208 - 02/18/18 11:00 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
KenK Offline
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It doesn't look like Old Hickory still make the model of knife that I bought 30+ years ago. It's a 6 inch blade butcher knife, I think ... with plenty of patina built-up over those years without onions. Well, OK, I'm sure it tasted onions.

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#288209 - 02/18/18 11:45 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
Russ Offline
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FWIW, Ontario has an Old Hickory 7" Butcher on Amazon. There’s a 7” Ka-Bar sheath you can buy separately.

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#288210 - 02/19/18 02:03 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
dougwalkabout Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
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Originally Posted By: KenK
Was it just my imagination? my incompetence at sharpening? or was there really something about that Buck knife? Are they better now? To this day I have a sweet spot in my heart for Buck ... but still won't buy one.


I have had a parade of Buck knives (and *koff* a few others as well) over the years. Most of them are decent, but there have been a few turkeys (400-grade-tent-peg-sludge) as well.

I had the same issue with a couple of Leathermans also. The steel didn't match the price. Leatherman has indulged my grumpiness (so far).

So yes, I think it's entirely possible you encountered a bad heat treatment, or the first of a new run, or experiments with different steel.

The good news is that the 420HC that Buck uses now (and Leatherman also) is perfectly serviceable. Not brag-worthy, but it certainly does the job for me.

My suggestion: if you still have that blade, send it back to Buck and tell them the same story you told us. They may just surprise you.

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#288211 - 02/19/18 06:53 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: dougwalkabout]
hikermor Offline
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Actually,just about any knife will do, provided you put a decent edge on it. Probably ought to have about a 4 to 5 inch blade. A variety of styles are available.

Consider the Buck 110, definitely a good (iconic!) hunting knife, which would be useful prepping food as well. One internet source has the standard model for $45, various others ranging up to $200(S30V steel!) and a cheapo model for $25 (nylon handle). You pays your money and takes your choice...It will process a deer and chop your carrots (after a careful cleaning, of course.

And Buck is no fly by night company
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#288212 - 02/19/18 07:04 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
AKSAR Offline
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In my opinion, knives are one of those areas where the old "80/20" rule applies.

You get about 80% of the functionality for about the first 20% of the cost. Beyond that you pay increasingly more and more, for smaller and smaller incremental improvements.
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#288214 - 02/19/18 07:59 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: AKSAR]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Registered: 07/18/17
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Originally Posted By: AKSAR
In my opinion, knives are one of those areas where the old "80/20" rule applies.

You get about 80% of the functionality for about the first 20% of the cost. Beyond that you pay increasingly more and more, for smaller and smaller incremental improvements.


I see your point AKSAR. In fact, that's the exact same system I apply when purchasing fine wines and spirits. Above a certain quality level, and corresponding price point, it becomes markedly harder to discern improvements.

It would take a true connoisseur to fully appreciate the difference between a 50$ bottle of wine and a 500$ one. To the largest part of drinking community, they're both simply good booze... grin

Now, if only I could find that sweet spot and get the Highland Park 12y of knives... cool

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#288215 - 02/19/18 08:02 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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The Buck 110 seems a good choice, thanks!

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#288218 - 02/19/18 08:22 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Russ Offline
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I can’t seem to find a folder that’s good in the kitchen. Something about meat, veggies and liquids getting into the folding & locking mechanism. Folders are great for convenience of carry, but beyond that, fixed blades only.

BTW, that cheap Mora Classic No.1 does a fine job on onions. Not my best onion knife, but totally acceptable.

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#288223 - 02/19/18 10:47 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
hikermor Offline
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Per Russ's valid point about getting goo inside the folding mechanism, there is also a fixed blade version available, the 101, I believe (named after the highway??)

AKSAR is right on target with his 80/20 observation. It applies to lots of stuff. I always claimed that 80 per cent of the work done by NP park staff was caused by 2% of the visitors - ratio is a little different, but same principle....
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#288226 - 02/19/18 11:31 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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There’s an old saying that is appropriate -- “Better is the enemy of good enough”.

For many applications, the $11 Mora Classic #1 is “good enough”. “Better” costs a lot more money.

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#288255 - 02/26/18 07:46 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
Russ Offline
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Onions didn’t work fast enough in putting a patina on that $11 Mora Classic and I was thinking why didn’t the patina I expected develop? ... warmth and humidity. I was on a South Pacific island when this technique worked so well. So I warmed the blade over my kettle while boiling water for coffee. The blade became warm and had warm water on it. Then I wrapped it in a paper towel soaked in a little apple cider vinegar, set it aside and drank my coffee. When I saw it again the paper towel had a reddish discoloration which was concerning, but it was just the paper.

The steel had the gray patina I was hoping for, so I washed it, dried it and then treated it with Camellia Seed Oil, which is also referred to as Camellia oleifera and Tea Seed Oil (not Tea Tree Oil). From what I’ve read, it’s food grade so should be suitable for a carbon steel knife used in preparing food and is also used on woodworking tools in Japan. FWIW, $.02

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#288268 - 02/28/18 05:45 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Russ Offline
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Regardless of already having been answered, back to the original Q -- There are so many good answers. The Morakniv Kansbol may also be worth considering. The blade profile has thinner stock on the forward end of the blade and a different edge profile -- it should slice better than the scandi edge on the rear half of the blade. With the Kansbol you get both a scandi edge which may work better for bushcraft and a more traditional edge profile for slicing veggies and meat. $.02

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#288274 - 03/01/18 07:05 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
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Originally Posted By: Russ
The Morakniv Kansbol may also be worth considering.


Thank you Russ. I was not aware of such "dual edge" Mora. Very worth considering.

I look forward to bring a few knives on my next hiking/barbecuing weekend, and make a report on this forum afterwards, to share how they performed.

Just wishful thinking for now, alas. It's snowing outside my window as I write, Europe being caught in a Siberian cold snap...

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#288275 - 03/01/18 11:02 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
KenK Offline
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The Mora Kansbol has the same blade configuration as the Mora 2000.

My own personal favorite Mora is the Robust. It doesn't have a very long blade (3-5/8"), but I think I like it because the slightly thicker blade just feels better - instilling a bit more confidence in it. Not to mention it costs less than $20!! Amazing!!!!

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#288278 - 03/01/18 02:35 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
Russ Offline
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There is a Mora Companion model with thicker stock also - Mora Companio Heavy Duty. 4.1” blade length, .125” thick.

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#288279 - 03/01/18 02:57 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
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Another devoted Mora fan here. Maybe my handle should be "hikermora? Anyway, the Mora I am really fond of is the LMF version that has a ferro rod firmly attached to the handle. So I have a capable basic knife with good fire starting capability. I recently used mine for about ten days routinely firing up our propane stove for all meals - worked like a charm starting fires and was handy for slicing and dicing.

I am not sure they are still in production - REI sold off their stock at a discount (list price is $36 - quite a bit for a Mora).
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#288280 - 03/01/18 03:16 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Hikermora’s Mora LMF is available on Amazon. What color do you want? I’m thinking red or orange as a reminder that it’s the fire version; OTOH my other emergency gear is yellow.

I’d never looked at the Mora LMF closely, but from the picture it looks like 1 1/2” of the tip has a thinner edge profile and it starts out with thinner stock overall so should slice okay.
Quote:
Blade Tip
The Swedish FireKnife blade has a special profile-ground tip that allows it to carve thin slices and perform the most delicate camp food preparation all while being robust enough for the toughest camp chores.

Kitchen and emergency back-up? It’s not like I don’t have a few heavier knives and other sharps for heavy cutting. Yellow.


Edited by Russ (03/01/18 03:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Added quote
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#288281 - 03/01/18 03:18 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
gonewiththewind Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
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They should name a model for you Hikermor!

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#288282 - 03/01/18 04:02 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Russ
Hikermora’s LMF is available on Amazon.


This forum should be officialy declared a financial hazard!

Every item mentioned in this or other threads is very well worth of purchasing. Unfortunately, my credit card is not linked to a bottomless bank account...

I hope to develop some kind of self defence machanism over time...

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#288284 - 03/01/18 04:28 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
gonewiththewind Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
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Good luck with that

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#288285 - 03/01/18 04:41 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: gonewiththewind]
hikermor Offline
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Montanero, thank you very much! That is quite flattering...I would propose that they modify the Robust (or the Companion Heavy Duty), putting a ferro rod in the handle a la the LMF. I now they have models that include a ferro rod attached to the scabbard, but I really like the rod as part of the knife itself.
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#288286 - 03/01/18 04:45 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
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Originally Posted By: albusgrammaticus
Originally Posted By: Russ
Hikermora’s LMF is available on Amazon.


This forum should be officialy declared a financial hazard!

Every item mentioned in this or other threads is very well worth of purchasing. Unfortunately, my credit card is not linked to a bottomless bank account...

I hope to develop some kind of self defence machanism over time...


Don't worry. After all, we are only proposing the purchase of absolutely critical essentials, critically vital to bare survival during absolutely adverse circumstances...What better way to spend money??
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#288287 - 03/01/18 06:50 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: KenK
The Mora Kansbol has the same blade configuration as the Mora 2000.

My own personal favorite Mora is the Robust. It doesn't have a very long blade (3-5/8"), but I think I like it because the slightly thicker blade just feels better - instilling a bit more confidence in it. Not to mention it costs less than $20!! Amazing!!!!


Mine is the Robust High Q which is a much different knife from the standard Robust. As far as I know, it is no longer being manufactured but it is very similar to the Companion. I just preferred the handle shape of these blades. They are a great second tool option with a heavier blade or as a standalone blade if you are going out for extended periods.

http://www.workwearcanada.com/featured/feature.cfm?feature=9

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#288288 - 03/01/18 07:11 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Roarmeister]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
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For those still looking, the Mora Robust High Q is also available on Amazon. It’s almost identical to the Mora Companion HD -- blade length, thickness and blade/handle profile samo-samo. The color is different, but they could easily have come from the same mold. I like this because it means I don’t need to buy one wink

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#288289 - 03/01/18 10:55 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
dougwalkabout Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
The thicker Mora blades aren't much fun for food prep, which is the OP's interest.

I have a stainless Frost's/Mora Clipper/Companion, the thinner one, that would cover both bases adequately. Especially if you take it to a guy with a belt sander and smooth off the hard angle at the top of the Scandi-grind. That would make it equivalent to the Chef knives in most restaurant kitchens, which are thicker than consumer knives in order to last a long time despite weekly mechanized sharpening.

BTW, I know several guys who like a Mora/Rapala/Frost's 6-inch fillet knife as their go-to kitchen prep knife. Sharp, handy, and manly.

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#288291 - 03/02/18 05:28 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Russ Offline
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There is a good review of the Morakniv Bushcraft at thetruthaboutknives.com/. Good detail on knife construction and how well it holds up.

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#288293 - 03/02/18 09:37 AM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Phaedrus Offline
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I guess I'll be the wet blanket! wink Bear in mind that this comes from my being a chef by trade, so it may not apply to everyone. But to me the attributes that make a knife good for bushcraft are not the same ones that make a good kitchen knife. Again, this is based on my experience as a chef. A professional cook will hold the knife in a pinch grip, thumb and forefinger on the sides of the blade. Cuts will usually be made in a slicing motion or by rocking the blade tip-to-heel. Generally the latter is the method by which most chopping is done, and that technique is predicated on having the traditional chef knife profile.

Still any knife can cut food! I would prefer a thin blade and ideally not a scandi grind (for food). It probably goes without saying that while I love burning fatwood I would rather not have pine resin in my food!

Even though the Scandi grind isn't ideal for food I do love Mora knives. They're towards the cheap and cheerful end of the price spectrum yet they're high quality and will do most anything you need to do. Recently I purchased a used Mora Garberg at a price I couldn't resist. While it's expensive for a Mora, my initial impressions are that it still offers a great value for what you pay!
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#288294 - 03/02/18 02:27 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Phaedrus]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
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Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Phaedrus, you're not a wet blanket. You are absolutely correct. For slicing meat and large veggies/fruit I also think a longer stainless steel blade does better than a carbon blade - I'd mentioned that earlier in this thread. The good news is that Mora stainless steel blades are great slicers - very easy to sharpen!!

For chopping onions, green peppers, and the like I prefer the chef knife like wide blade - so the edge is far below the handle. There aren't many outdoor knives like that that I know of.

If you're looking for a "paring knife" then I think most any shorter narrow blade will cover that task, but I still would prefer stainless steel for kitchen work due to the sanitation needs.

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#288295 - 03/02/18 03:34 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
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Loc: SOCAL
“Great” is a relative term. A great slicer will be thin stock and have a flat grind. A Mora can be an okay slicer in the field, but you will never see one in the hands of a serious chef/cook. Using a Mora for food prep in the field is understandable, but it is a compromise to avoid carrying to many different blades.

While at REI recently I found of all things an MSR Alpine Chefs Knife. Something to consider before thinking a Mora is a great slicer.
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#288296 - 03/02/18 03:51 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
hikermor Offline
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Agreed -Phaedrus is not a wet blanket. It is really great to have a professional opinion - very insightful...

Now for an amateur viewpoint. My slicing is much less extensive, being confined to slicing the wrapper that encases the goody that will be popped into the microwave. Depending on how hungry I am, anything from bare teeth to a nice sharp knife will work.

Stainless vs. carbon steel?? Does it really make a difference? Is blade thickness really that important, compared to a sharp edge?

The viewpoint of a Neanderthal who hasn't quite given up on stone tools...
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#288297 - 03/02/18 04:52 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Phaedrus]
albusgrammaticus Offline
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Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
I guess I'll be the wet blanket! wink


Life would be boring without an heartful debate now and then! grin

Thank you very much for you professional insight.

Obviously, a true professional would never settle with something less than the perfect tool for the job. A chef's knife would certainly be the first choice in an ideal setting, i.e. my home, but the blade I'll use would be toted around for hours in a cramped space, and I would like something a bit less bulky and heavy, that can also be used for other purposes as well, if the need arises.

For example, during our getaways my friends and I use frequently knives to cut long stretches of heavy duty plastic wrap, the type that comes in those industrial rolls used to wrap pallets. We combine them side by side, then tie them to a balcony on one end and a fence on the other, to make a makeshift, waterproof roof for our courtyard during rainy days. It works wonderfully!
We use our pocket knives for this job, but I think a Mora would slice through the heavy duty plastic like butter.

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#288298 - 03/02/18 04:54 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: Russ]
albusgrammaticus Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 66
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Russ
“Great” is a relative term. A great slicer will be thin stock and have a flat grind. A Mora can be an okay slicer in the field, but you will never see one in the hands of a serious chef/cook. Using a Mora for food prep in the field is understandable, but it is a compromise to avoid carrying to many different blades.


That's exactly my understanding, Russ.

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#288300 - 03/02/18 07:55 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: albusgrammaticus]
Pete Offline
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Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
I did actually do this, during a recent overland trip in S. America. I used a kitchen knife, with a blade of about 4-5 inches. But a blade with a good strong spine ... Like a German steak knife. The idea worked very well.

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#288307 - 03/03/18 03:58 PM Re: A good knife for bushcraft AND kitchen duty? [Re: KenK]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: KenK
Phaedrus, you're not a wet blanket. You are absolutely correct.


Agreed! This has been a very useful discussion for me.

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