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#287756 - 01/11/18 07:01 PM Bug Out First Aid Kit
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
I'm in the process of building a first aid kit, in addition to my EDC kit, that I will bring with me if we have to bug out. Space in the car, or cars, is at a premium. Therefore, I will use this bag:

https://www.chinookmed.com/01386rd/home-vehicle-plus-bag.html

The following is what I have in the kit so far:

MEDICAL INFORMATION
(1) Comprehensive Guide, Wilderness & Travel Medicine

PERSONAL PROTECTION
(1) Biohazard Waste Bag
(1) Rescue Mask, Soft Case
(2) Emergency/Survival Blanket
(2) Respirator Mask
(4) Nitrile Glove
(6) Personal Antimicrobial Wipe

BLEEDING
(1) SWAT-T Tourniquet
(1) QuikClot, 25 g
(1) Compressed Gauze
(1) Trauma Bandage, 4"

WOUND / BLISTER / BURN
(2) Trauma Pad, 5" x 9"
(1) Burn Dressing, 2" x 6"
(3) Burn Jel, 3.5 g
(1) 30 Band-Aid, 6 Knuckle, 6 Moleskin
(1) Cloth Tape, 1" x 10 yds.
(1) Wound Closure Strips, 0.25" x 4"
(12) Antiseptic Towelettes
(2) Benzoin Swabsticks
(2) Oval Eye Pad
(2) Non-Adherent Dressing, 3" x 4"
(2) Petroleum Gauze, 3" x 9"
(2) Povidone-Iodine, 22 mL
(4) Sterile Gauze Pad, 4" x 4"

IMMOBILIZATION
(1) Elastic Bandage Wrap, 3" x 4.5 yds.
(1) Splint, Orange, 4.25" x 36"
(2) Triangular Bandage

MEDICATION
(1) Eye Wash, 4 oz.
(6) Aspirin, 2/pk (Analgesic)
(6) Diamode, 1/pk (Anti-diarrheal)
(6) Diotame, 2/pk (Stomach)
(6) Diphen, 1/pk (Antihistamine)
(6) Hydrocortisone 1% Creme, 1.5 g
(6) Ibuprofen, 2/pk (Anti-inflammatory)
(6) Triple Antibiotic Ointment, 0.9 g
(2) Hydration Powder
(1) Insect Bite Treatment

INSTRUMENTS
(1) Irrigation Syringe, 60cc
(1) Digital Thermometer
(1) EMT Shears, 5.5"
(1) Tweezers
(1) Disposable Penlight

I have one empty pocket in the bag and some room to spare in other pockets. The following is what I'm considering. First of all, I somehow forgot the cotton tip applicators. I will get them in the next order.

(4) Cotton-Tipped Applicator, 6"
(6) Personal Antimicrobial Wipe [a total of twelve]
(2) Emergency/Survival Blanket [a total of four]
(2) Respirator Mask [a total of four]
(4) Nitrile Glove [a total of eight]
(1) Trauma Bandage, 4" [a total of two]
(1) Compressed Gauze [a total two]
(1) Bolin Chest Seal
(2) Nasopharyngeal Airway w/ Lube, 28 Fr
(1) Wound Seal

The following is what I'm considering if I have room to spare:

(2) Respirator Mask [a total of six]
(2) Combat Application Tourniquet, Rescue Orange
(1) Compressed Gauze [a total of three]
(1) Burn Dressing, 4" x 16"
(1) Burn Dressing, 4" x 4"
(6) Povidone-Iodine Prep Pad
(2) Sterile Gauze Pad, 4"x4" [a total of six]
(1) Permanent Marker, Extra Fine Point
(1) Tactical Combat Casualty Reference Card
(2) Tactical Combat Casualty Care Card
(2) Decompression Needle, 14G x 3.25
(2) Combat Eye Shield
(1) Splint, Orange, 4.25" x 36" [a total of two]
(2) Triangular Bandage [a total of four]

This kit is for catastrophic situations in which professional help or supplies are 24 Hours away. I may bring additional supplies with me such as, but not limited to, a box of gloves and a box of biohazard waste bags.


What additions or changes do you recommend?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287758 - 01/11/18 08:44 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
No BP cuff or sthescope? Perhaps some of form to record vitals/measures taken? Could be very useful to the pros when they take charge. Would be good to hear from practicing pros on this issue..

Edit: I now see the "Tactical Casualty Care Card."(Thank heaven it is tactical) I am not familiar with this item, but I suppose it allows you to record patient history, which the ER will certainly appreciate. Unless you are only going to treat family members or very close friends, barrier gloves are an absolute must! Have some immediately available as soon as the kit is cracked


Edited by hikermor (01/11/18 09:34 PM)
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#287762 - 01/11/18 09:16 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
No BP cuff?

I do not include a blood pressure because of space it would take up.

Originally Posted By: hikermor
Perhaps some of form to record vitals/measures taken? Could be very useful to the pros when they take charge.

I plan to include that.

Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
(1) Permanent Marker, Extra Fine Point
(2) Tactical Combat Casualty Care Card

https://www.chinookmed.com/14000pa/tactical-combat-casualty-care-tccc-card.html

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287768 - 01/11/18 09:54 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
I would strongly advocate for the enclusion of a BP cuff and stethoscope. Doing mountain SAR, when my bag was culled routinely to eliminate frills and unnecessary items, I, and all my colleagues who were suitably trained, toted cuffs and scopes. Especially if a long interval has elapsed between first contact and arrival in the ER, the recording of vitals will be really useful for downstream care.

You are recording more with the scope than just BP - cardiac and lung conditon are pretty important as well. It looks like you are contemplating a combat situation, what with the TCCC, and tourniquets. My experience, dealing with the kinds of traumas associated with folks coming to grief in the wilds, never involved the need for a T, but we always tracked vitals. Both are a really good idea, but, if push came to shove, I would keep the BP and scope.
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#287769 - 01/11/18 10:32 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
You are recording more with the scope than just BP - cardiac and lung conditon are pretty important as well.

I only know how to take a person's blood pressure. I'm not trained on the rest you mentioned.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287771 - 01/11/18 11:33 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
The SWAT-T is better than nothing but not recommended. Granular QuikClot is not recommended, nor are QuikClot sponges. QuikClot gauze is really good.

I'd recommend that you delete the decompression needles unless you have been trained to use them, and add more chest seals instead. If you are not a medical professional a decompression needle is way outside the scope of your practice, and a lot of harm can be done if they are used improperly. Chest seals (if you don't apply them to the nose and mouth!) are very hard to hurt someone with.

You can never have too many bandaids, gloves, or BZK wipes. You can never have too much gauze, bandages, or good tape.

You're don't have much in the way of OTC meds for multiple people or more than one day.

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#287773 - 01/11/18 11:57 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4765
Loc: SOCAL
I look at that list and wonder ... how big is the bag that carries it? That looks like the contents of the back of an ambulance manned by an EMT or two.

One of my favorite FAK’s was built based on the contents of CountyComm’s Grab & Go First Aid Kit. The idea behind the kit is that you patch up your owwies and keep going. I put mine together in a quart size zip-lock freezer bag — very handy for the small stuff that happens much more often than the big stuff.

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#287774 - 01/11/18 11:59 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle

I only know how to take a person's blood pressure. I'm not trained on the rest you mentioned.

Jeanette Isabelle


I would heartily recommend such training. Your level of training is at least as important as the gear you are carrying; no, more important. I would prefer to be handled by a knowledgeable person with no gear, than an untrained, or minimally trained person, with all the goodies in the world. I have personally seem what a good MD can do, thrust unexpectedly into an emergency, with absolutely minimal equipment.

Patient survey and assessment, including the detection of some fairly subtle conditions, is absolutely essential to providing good care.

Note that your TCCC has space for entries concerning BP, respirations, and other vitals. The folks you hand off to will be glad to get that info.
Now, frankly, I am a very rusty EMT, and protocols have changed to some extent, since I was active (70s and 80s), so I would welcome the comments of more current, informed persons.
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#287776 - 01/12/18 12:23 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
That indeed looks like a fine kit for minor , disabling owies. Kits should be developed to work in the situations that are anticipated. It seems that J-I is working for something rather more serious, with moderately long term care (24 hours is an eternity if you are dealing with a serious situation). You need to consider what is essential for you to carry to handle predictable situations and what can be improvised from readily available sources. A lot can be improvised.

I once taught an Advanced FA course to an Explorer Post, who were very heavily into outdoor trips. At one of our sessions, I had them bring in their backpacks and respond to various scenarios. It was great -I was learning as much as they were....
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#287777 - 01/12/18 01:36 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
The SWAT-T is better than nothing but not recommended. Granular QuikClot is not recommended, nor are QuikClot sponges. QuikClot gauze is really good.

If space allows, I plan to include two Combat Application Tourniquets. I am building this kit with some financial restrictions. Therefore, I bought the QuickClot sponge.

Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
I'd recommend that you delete the decompression needles unless you have been trained to use them, and add more chest seals instead. If you are not a medical professional a decompression needle is way outside the scope of your practice, and a lot of harm can be done if they are used improperly.

I have not been trained with the decompression needle. I acknowledge learning the procedure from the book, which is what I did, is not the same. One thing the author drives home more than anything else is:

If the situation is desperate and the victim is literally dying, there is only one thing that you can do to possibly save his life.

Pleural should not be undertaken lightly and should be attempted only is the victim appears to be dying.


With that established, should I delete the decompression needles from the list?

Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
You can never have too many bandaids, gloves, or BZK wipes. You can never have too much gauze, bandages, or good tape.

I may bring a box of gloves with me. The rest would depend on how much space we have.

Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
You're don't have much in the way of OTC meds for multiple people or more than one day.

It's not like we can look in the future and know what is needed, how many people will be there or be involved. This is a judgment call. I forgot to mention the Alka-Seltzer and I am considering two other things such as oral rehydration salts.

I also have my EDC kit and a separate bottle of aspirin.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287778 - 01/12/18 01:40 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Russ]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Russ
I look at that list and wonder ... how big is the bag that carries it? That looks like the contents of the back of an ambulance manned by an EMT or two.

I'm buying the contents a little at a time to be sure that what I buy will fit in the kit. Once the kit is full, I will stop buying additional supplies.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287779 - 01/12/18 01:53 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
I would rather buy the supplies appropriate for the anticipated event, and then purchase the bag(s) that will contain them. Nowhere is it written that everything must fit into one container.
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Geezer in Chief

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#287780 - 01/12/18 01:57 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4765
Loc: SOCAL
Just my opinion, but a bug-out kit should be small enough to allow for ease of transport. Any large kits should be pre-staged at the site to where you are bugging out. That includes all supplies: food, tools, ammo, camping gear, first aid and serious medical gear.

The stuff you carry or throw in your car/truck should be stuff selected to assist in getting to your bug-out location. If you don’t have a bug-out location, you might want to start with that.

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#287781 - 01/12/18 02:07 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
I saved the lives of two CPR dummies, took a class on first aid though I learned more from studying books and practicing on myself. As for practical experience, I helped my grandmother with her oxygen therapy (though I don't anticipate that experience coming in handy in the future). I treated three burns, wrapped a sprained ankle, treated a hand caught in a door and I applied and changed bandaging (not including band-aids) more often than I can count. I also learned procedures (and practiced them until I became comfortable) such as taking vital signs (blood pressure, pulse and respiration) and avoiding cross-contamination from friends and relatives in the medical profession.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287782 - 01/12/18 02:20 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Russ]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Russ
Just my opinion, but a bug-out kit should be small enough to allow for ease of transport. Any large kits should be pre-staged at the site to where you are bugging out. That includes all supplies: food, tools, ammo, camping gear, first aid and serious medical gear.

The stuff you carry or throw in your car/truck should be stuff selected to assist in getting to your bug-out location. If you don’t have a bug-out location, you might want to start with that.

The biggest problem with a bugout location is the bugout could take place this year or seven years from now, if at all. Also, what might seem like a safe location now, may not be at the time we bugout.

The planned location is a timeshare. Unfortunately, we can't store items at a timeshare. Fortunately, the company works on the points system instead of the weeks' system which gives us greater flexibility.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287783 - 01/12/18 02:33 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I would rather buy the supplies appropriate for the anticipated event, and then purchase the bag(s) that will contain them. Nowhere is it written that everything must fit into one container.

A part of the decision process came down to cost. The $49.95 bag was the largest that could fit my budget. I wanted quality and organization and I know this company offers both (no affiliation).

https://www.chinookmed.com/category/home-containers/packs/cases/home/travel/adventure/1.html

By bringing a box of gloves with me, I don't need to worry about space for more gloves. I imagine I will need more gloves than what this bag can hold.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287805 - 01/12/18 09:50 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2265
most of what gets used for me is Ibuprofen, band-aids and tape.
for your application, I'd add much more on the meds list. Full bottles of ibuprofen, stomach meds, etc.

I include a lighter, pocket knife and keychain flashlight in mine.

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#287806 - 01/12/18 09:57 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: TeacherRO]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4765
Loc: SOCAL
Rather than a keychain flashlight, consider a headlamp to keep both hands free.

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#287807 - 01/12/18 10:15 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: TeacherRO]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
most of what gets used for me is Ibuprofen, band-aids and tape.
for your application, I'd add much more on the meds list. Full bottles of ibuprofen, stomach meds, etc.

I keep a bottle of aspirin, which I regularly replace, in my EDC bag.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287809 - 01/12/18 10:46 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
The thing that works is to have one or two pairs right on top, ava ilable as soon as your bag is opened. Saves a bit of time and helps the aider to avoid a potentially serious error. The big box is to replenish, resupply the initial stash....
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Geezer in Chief

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#287810 - 01/12/18 11:08 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4765
Loc: SOCAL
Yep, I keep a pair of nitrile gloves readily available so they’re the first thing you find when either of my larger FAK’s is opened. My small kit, not so much; a pair of nitrile gloves would significantly increase the size of the kit and since it’s an owwie kit... Remember, the gloves are mostly to protect the responder from contaminants/bodily fluids. For owwies, I pull a band-aid, hand it to the vic’ in the wrapper and let him/her self treat.

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#287811 - 01/13/18 12:27 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
The thing that works is to have one or two pairs right on top, ava ilable as soon as your bag is opened. Saves a bit of time and helps the aider to avoid a potentially serious error.

I have the personal protection items in the side pocket for that reason.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287812 - 01/13/18 12:39 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
I'd recommend that you delete the decompression needles unless you have been trained to use them, and add more chest seals instead. If you are not a medical professional a decompression needle is way outside the scope of your practice, and a lot of harm can be done if they are used improperly.

I have not been trained with the decompression needle. I acknowledge learning the procedure from the book, which is what I did, is not the same. One thing the author drives home more than anything else is:

If the situation is desperate and the victim is literally dying, there is only one thing that you can do to possibly save his life.

Pleural should not be undertaken lightly and should be attempted only is the victim appears to be dying.


With that established, should I delete the decompression needles from the list?

Chaos Magnet, should I include the decompression needles for the reason I stated or is the victim's chance of dying the same regardless of what I do or don't do?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287813 - 01/13/18 12:48 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
As for practical experience, I helped my grandmother with her oxygen therapy (though I don't anticipate that experience coming in handy in the future). I treated three burns, wrapped a sprained ankle, treated a hand caught in a door and I applied and changed bandaging (not including band-aids) more often than I can count.

Hikermor, I acknowledge my limitations and I have been on the lookout for a first aid class in the area. If there is one, I haven't found it yet. I hope my hands-on experience counts for something.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#287815 - 01/13/18 01:00 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
Chaos Magnet, should I include the decompression needles for the reason I stated or is the victim's chance of dying the same regardless of what I do or don't do?


If you do everything within your scope of practice and someone dies anyway...you did everything you can do. If you as a non-professional stick a needle in someone’s chest and they die, you could end up with massive civil liability or even go to prison, depending on the law where you live and the circumstances. But I’m not a lawyer.

A chest seal is likely to keep someone alive to get them to definitive care, if applied correctly in time and the patient has tension pneumothorax. More, vented chest seals is better. I have been formally trained on decompression needle usage, and I would start with a chest seal every time.

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#287816 - 01/13/18 01:32 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
A lot is going to depend on circumstances. I might try desperate measures on a close relative, for instance, that I would never attempt on a stranger.

In my first EMT class (many moons ago) which was given by my employer to those of us who would be operating out deep in the woods (this was years before the Wilderness oriented courses were developed), our instructor, a Navy corpsman with lots of experience, introduced us to the "crico," a procedure where you cut into, or puncture the esophagus, hopefully below the larynx, in order to open the airway when other measures were ineffective. I understand this procedure has been successfully performed using no other instrument than a ball point pen.

I have yet to be faced with the need to attempt this maneuver, and I just mention it as an example of a "Hail Mary" procedure that is theoretically available in desperate circumstances.

Remember that rapid transport to definitive care (a decent ER) is critical to a good outcome - the Golden Hour. When faced with a situation requiring care, you simply do the best you can and cross your fingers. I believe most of those I have treated have survived...
Do the best you can, according to your capabilities and training, and sleep soundly at night.
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Geezer in Chief

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#287817 - 01/13/18 02:27 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Famdoc Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 77
Loc: PA
A couple of points, clarifications:
A needle thoracentesis to decompress a tension pneumothorax is relatively easy to do, but requires some assessment skills to know when and where to do it. The stethoscope is very useful for that. The IV catheter JI mentions may be useful for others to use who have such skills, but don't have the needed equipment at the time of need.

The rare person who has a spontaneous pneumothorax (without a penetrating wound, mostly tall skinny adolescents), will not be helped by a chest seal: There is nothing to seal on the skin. For relief, the needle thoracentesis provides the quickest relief and can sometimes avoid need for a chest tube.

A one-way flap valve can be fashioned from a nitrile or latex glove finger cut off from the glove to fit over the hub of the thoracentesis needle/catheter and secured in place to prevent air -reentry.

Emergency cricothyroidotomies are really rare; done mainly for acute upper airway obstruction from a suddenly swollen epiglottis, or massively swollen tongue, or a hangman's injury, etc. The trachea is what is intentionally punctured, not the esophagus: One more reason to carry a small very sharp blade, and a pen, which can be disassembled and the longer part of it thrust thru the new opening in the trachea to allow air-exchange. Again, someone else at the scene may have the skills, but not the equipment needed.

YouTube of course has the videos.

The American College of Surgeons Advanced Trauma Life Support course and Tactical Combat Casualty Courses cover these techniques, but these courses may be very difficult to access if you are not in medicine/nursing/EMT/Paramedic/firefighting/law enforcement already.

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#287818 - 01/13/18 03:37 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Famdoc]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Famdoc
The rare person who has a spontaneous pneumothorax (without a penetrating wound, mostly tall skinny adolescents), will not be helped by a chest seal: There is nothing to seal on the skin. For relief, the needle thoracentesis provides the quickest relief and can sometimes avoid need for a chest tube.


Good to know -- the only tension pneumothorax that I've been trained to expect is immediately following a gunshot wound, stabbing, or similar traumatic injury.

Quote:
The American College of Surgeons Advanced Trauma Life Support course and Tactical Combat Casualty Courses cover these techniques, but these courses may be very difficult to access if you are not in medicine/nursing/EMT/Paramedic/firefighting/law enforcement already.


TCCC-type training is much easier to get than it was a few years ago for firearms instructors; some classes are advertised for the (much larger) concealed carry market.

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#287819 - 01/13/18 04:04 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Famdoc]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
FamDoc - Thank you for weighing in with good info!
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#287823 - 01/13/18 12:04 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1502
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Famdoc/Chaos... I had a young man in my Chem I class (around 17yr)tall, thin, with small chest/rib development suffer from spontaneous lung collapse in class.... he had very ashen complexion, difficult breathing... luckily we had EMT within 5 minutes, and a RN on staff that supported him with oxygen...I had been in a motorcycle accident several years previous, was checked out at the ER and released, and suffered one the next afternoon...

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#287831 - 01/14/18 03:16 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
You can never have too many bandaids, gloves, or BZK wipes. You can never have too much gauze, bandages, or good tape.

I have a lot of refill supplies. The following is what I think is worth mentioning:

(1) Box, Nitrile Gloves
(1) Box, Biohazard Waste Bags
(1) Box, Trauma Dressing, 5" x 9"
(10) Triangular Bandages
(22) Suture Strip Plus, 1/4" Wound Closure Strips
(3) Povidone-Iodine 10% Solution
(4) Petrolatum Gauze, 3"x 9"
(2) Irrigation Syringe, 60cc
(3) Water-Jel Burn Gel
(8) Stretch Gauze Bandage, 3"
(1) Box, Sterile Gauze, 3" x 3"
(1) Box, Sterile Gauze, 4" x 4"
(2) Box, Non-Adherent Dressing, 3" x 4"
(1) Dyna-stopper Dressing
(2) CoFlex LF2 Foam Bandage, 2"
(2) Elastic Bandages, 3"
(1) Elastic Bandages, 4"
(1) Box, Knuckle Bandages
(5) Cloth Tape, 1"
(40) Oval Eye Pads
(1) Disposable Penlight

Again, those are what I think are worth mentioning. I have other items. Out of those listed, I don't know how much I can bring with me.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#288264 - 02/27/18 09:59 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
You can never have too many bandaids, gloves, or BZK wipes. You can never have too much gauze, bandages, or good tape.

You're don't have much in the way of OTC meds for multiple people or more than one day.

Though more expensive, I wonder if the following kit would be better in a situation where space is an issue.

https://www.aeromedix.com/doc-blue-s-family-medical-kit

I would need a box of gloves to supplement this kit; it has everything else that quickly runs out: self-adhesive bandages, wipes, 4" x 4" and other bandaging material, tape and medications.

Exterior Zip Pocket 1 (Left side, facing front of bag)
– (2 ea) Dermicel Tape – 1”
– (1 ea) Dermicel Tape – 2”
– (1 ea) Elastic Bandage – 6”
– (2 ea) Porous Cloth Tape – 1”
– (1 ea) Porous Cloth Tape – 2”
Exterior Zip Pocket 2 (top of bag)
– (3 ea) Extra Medkit bags
– (1 ea) Sam Splint
– (1 ea) Travel John – 3 pack
Exterior Zip Pocket 3 (Right side, facing front of bag)
– (1 ea) Eye wash – 4 oz
– (1 ea) Children's Tylenol – 3.38oz
– (1 ea) Hand Sanitizer – 4 oz
– (1 ea) GO! Towels – 4 pack
Velcro Keeper Strip
– (1 ea) Mosquito Hemostat
– (1 ea) Small EMT shears
Bag Set #1
– Sub Location 1
– (20 ea) Betadine Pads
– (1 ea) Scalpel Blade #10
– Sub Location 2
– (21 ea) Wash-Up towelettes
Bag Set #2
– Sub Location 1
– (16 ea) Buffered Aspirin tablet - 2 pack
– Sub Location 2
– (16 ea) Buffered Aspirin tablet - 2 pack
– Sub Location 3
– (24 ea) Pepto Bismol (or equiv) tablet - 2 pack
– Sub Location 4
– (12 ea) Benadryl (or equiv) tablet – 2 pack
Bag Set #3
– Sub Location 1
– (1 ea) Cough Drops – 25 pack
– (4 ea) Ear Plugs pack
– Sub Location 2
– (2 ea) Dramamine tablet – 8 pack
– (1 ea) Bag of Safety Pins – 12 pack

Bag Set #4
– Sub Location 1
– (32 ea) Electrolyte tablets – 2 pack
– Sub Location 2
– (32 ea) Ibuprofen tablets – 2 pack
Bag Set # 5
– Sub Location 1
– (30 ea) Cotton Tip Applicators – 2 pack
– Sub Location 2
– (2 ea) Kleenex Pack
– (15 ea) Tongue Depressors
– Sub Location 3
– (32 ea) Acetaminophen tablet – 2 pack
– (1 ea) Imodium AD tablet – 12 pack
Bag Set #6
– Sub Location 1
– (20 ea) 4x4 gauze
– (1 ea) First Aid Book
– Sub Location 2
– (2 ea) Maxi pads
– (2 ea) Tampons
– Sub Location 3
– (1 ea) Moleskin
– (5 ea) Non-Ad Pad
Bag Set #7
– Sub Location 1
– (30 ea) Fingertip woven bandage
– (30 ea) Knuckle woven bandage
– Sub Location 2
– (30 ea) 1”x3” woven strip bandage
– (30 ea) Character Strips (inside small ziplock)
Bag Set #8
– Sub Location 1
– (5 ea) Hydrocortizone 1% Foil pack
– (1 ea) Steristrip – 3
– (1 ea) Steristrip – 5
– (1 ea) Steristrip – 6
– Sub Location 2
– (30 ea) Plastic Spot

Interior Removable Zip Pouch #1
– (1 ea) Coflex – 3”
– (1 ea) Elastic Bandage – 2”
– (1 ea) Elastic Bandage – 4”
– (3 ea) Triangle Bandage
Interior Removable Zip Pouch #2
– (2 ea) Cold Pack
– (5 ea) Burn-Free packet
– (4 ea) Matisol tube
Interior Removable Zip Pouch #3
– (2 ea) Flexicon Bandage – 2”
– (2 ea) Flexicon Bandage – 4”
– (2 ea) Flexicon Bandage – 6”
Bottom Slip Pocket (Under removable Pouches)
– (3 ea) Zip Lock Bags – 12” x 15”
Top Slip Pocket (Under Bag Sets)
– (2 ea) Trash Bags – 20 quart
Elastic Loops
– (2 ea) Betadine Solution – 0.5 oz
– (1 ea) SPF 30 Sunscreen – 1 oz
– (1 ea) Blistex Lip Balm – tube
– (1 ea) Nu-Tears (or equiv) – 0.5 oz
– (3 ea) Sterile Needles – 18 Gauge
Loose between Removable Pouches and Elastic Loops
– Natrapel Pump – 3.5 oz
Waist Belt Wing Pocket Right
– (1 ea) Nitrile Gloves – Large – Pair
Waist Belt Wing Pocket Left
– (1 ea) Nitrile Gloves – Large – Pair

Being a kit for pilots, it has some items I do not need such as a travel john and earplugs. I would take those items out and put in something more useful. It does not have any tweezers so that is something I would add.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#288265 - 02/28/18 12:45 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
Earplugs are small in weight and space and quite the blessing when you need them.

For me it seems light on OTC meds, particularly ipuprofen, acetaminophen, and diarrhea treatment.

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#288266 - 02/28/18 02:15 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Compared to other meds, the amount of Pepto Bismol, Benadryl and Imodium AD is low. At thirty-two does each the amount of aspirin, acetaminophen and ibuprofen seem adequate.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#288270 - 03/01/18 01:21 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
CJK Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 522
Loc: FL, USA
Ok...My 2c... Quick resume:30 plus years (over 20 as a Medic) field provider for NYC EMS and Florida EMS.

In all those years I have NEVER needed to do a needle or surgical cric. I have only had ONE spontaneous Tension Pneumothorax (collapsed lung) patient. All others were trauma related and penetrating injuries. Maybe all of my 'blunt force' tramuas were lucky in that they never presented with a Tension Pneumothorax. Any lung collapses were self limiting on my patients (again-lucky for them?)

We were instructed that the Thoracentesis (needle decompression) was to relieve the TENSION Pneumo. We did not and do not do it for a simple pneumothorax. Granted a long term 'bug out' type scenario would present with other concerns maybe over days the simple will become tension- I (or really my patient) only had to make it to the ER. I do know that 'my' simple pneumos did not progress because I followed up on them to be sure I didn't miss anything.

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#288272 - 03/01/18 02:31 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
I have been trained (MUCH less training than CJK) that tension pneumo comes after traumatic injury and not spontaneously. And while I’m trained and equipped to treat it, if I can’t get a victim to definitive care quickly I wouldn’t be optimistic about their long-term chances.

In other words: I carry the gear because I know how and when to use it, but in a long-term situation without definitive care available, it’s of much less value.

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#288273 - 03/01/18 03:43 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4765
Loc: SOCAL
What I think I’m reading here is that in some cases 5# of FAK does not necessarily mean a satisfactory outcome unless something more than an FAK is forthcoming.

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#288276 - 03/01/18 01:39 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Russ]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Russ
What I think I’m reading here is that in some cases 5# of FAK does not necessarily mean a satisfactory outcome unless something more than an FAK is forthcoming.


Agreed 100%.

I was trained that there are three kinds of casualties:

  • People who will live even if you do nothing
  • People who will die no matter what you do
  • People who will live if you execute the right interventions in a timely fashion, and then get them to definitive care rapidly


For any situation where definitive care isn't available for some period of time, the third category gets smaller as the second category gets bigger.

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#288277 - 03/01/18 02:00 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6349
Loc: southern Cal
I have heard of the "Golden Hour," the time available to treat the critical conditions, package, and transport the patient - conclusion: don't fiddle in the field working on less important stuff, but get them to the ER! Thank heaven for helos!
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#288283 - 03/01/18 04:07 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I have heard of the "Golden Hour," the time available to treat the critical conditions, package, and transport the patient - conclusion: don't fiddle in the field working on less important stuff, but get them to the ER! Thank heaven for helos!

I mentioned I decided against decompression needles.

I mentioned before I study Bible prophecy and I listen to what modern-day prophets, who have proven themselves to be credible, have to say. And while I have some idea, I do not have a clear picture of how we are to prepare because I don't have a clear view of everything that will happen.

If we have to bug out, it will be because a situation is so dire that being airlifted to a well-stocked emergency room in twenty-four hours or less is not in the picture. That is part of the reason I decided against decompression needles: they require an immediate follow-up.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#288290 - 03/01/18 11:13 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
One thing you may want to consider, Jeanette_Isabelle, is if there is a lesser emergency where you may want to be able to treat a tension pneumothorax, but there’s still a good shot at getting to definitive care in time.

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#288311 - 03/03/18 07:19 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ocala, FL
I wonder, in addition to a regular first aid kit, should I include a burn kit such as this one?

http://www.waterjel.com/professional-products/emergency-burn-care/burn-kits/small-soft-sided/

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#288316 - 03/04/18 02:19 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
The space/weight tradeoff decision for a specialized burn kit for me has been one or two waterjel dressings in larger kits.

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#288333 - 03/07/18 01:51 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
CJK Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 522
Loc: FL, USA
Burn kits....we have them too. Haven't had the need to REALLY use one. Mostly more for the comfort factor. Burn Center Doc told us the most important thing was a CLEAN dressing when it comes to open wounds. I'd go with chaosmagnet...one or two packages.

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#288334 - 03/07/18 01:52 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
CJK Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 522
Loc: FL, USA
Something else I'm finding VERY handy....ok necessary.... a small 10x magnifying mirror. Self treating facial or eye stuff.... I can't really see close anymore without my 'cheaters'. I almost always have the magnifying mirror.

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#288341 - 03/08/18 06:19 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
EthanJames Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/06/18
Posts: 10
Spot on...

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#288342 - 03/08/18 03:42 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: CJK]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2893
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: CJK
Something else I'm finding VERY handy....ok necessary.... a small 10x magnifying mirror. Self treating facial or eye stuff.... I can't really see close anymore without my 'cheaters'. I almost always have the magnifying mirror.


YES.

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#288564 - 03/30/18 07:30 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
WesleyH Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 79
Loc: OKLAHOMA
Just a few thoughts on you kit.

You started with a good basic kit. Unless you are planning on an EOTWAWKI scenario, keep it light. Concentrate on controlling hemorrhage, stabilizing wounds (Sam splint) and simple fractures, a few basic meds (ONLY for family and friends. Don't give meds to anyone you don't know! (Aspirin mainly 82mg for potential Heart attack), anti nausea, anti diarrheal, minor topical antibiotics, Minor analgesic, (Tylenol AND ibuprofen or naproxen) dressings (triangular are often overlooked but great) bandages, and assessment tools. (flashlight, stethoscope, BP cuff) You can learn auscultation skills (listening to lung and bowel sounds) here for free:

https://www.easyauscultation.com/lung-sounds

You will gain some very important info from listening to body sounds and monitoring BP.

Remember, under the Good Samaritan laws, you need not fear lawsuits IF you stay with BASIC skills. If you start I.V.s do needle decompressions etc you are over the line.

Also, regarding burn dressings, they are nice but generally unneeded for emergent situations. Learn to assess degree of burns and cover them with a sterile dressing and you are fine. Trust me when I tell you when they reach an ER they will remove the dressings and SCRUB the burns with brushes. (yes, it hurts like H@ll!) but has to be done.

If you can afford it, a basic EMT class would be helpful.

I say this as a 25 year ICU RN, and Former Paramedic.

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#288579 - 03/31/18 10:31 PM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: WesleyH]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 347
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: WesleyH

Also, regarding burn dressings, they are nice but generally unneeded for emergent situations. Learn to assess degree of burns and cover them with a sterile dressing and you are fine. Trust me when I tell you when they reach an ER they will remove the dressings and SCRUB the burns with brushes. (yes, it hurts like H@ll!) but has to be done.



As a former burn victim--2nd and 3rd: face, ears, and scalp--the brushing will give you a whole new reference point on a scale of 1 to 10...
_________________________
Improvise,
Utilize,
Realize.

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#288677 - 04/10/18 12:31 AM Re: Bug Out First Aid Kit [Re: UncleGoo]
WesleyH Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 79
Loc: OKLAHOMA
UncleGoo,

You are so correct about the torture of the daily debriefing. I had the pleasure of spending 3 days in a local burn ward, after receiving second and 3 degree on my face, neck, and arms. (Never stick your face into a ongoing explosion of low flammability solvent!)

I remember two surreal moments. . .

In the ER, being in acute pain and feeling the unique pain of second degree burns AND being doused with iced saline. . .(freezing and burning at the same time) and

Daily debridement with scrub brushes. Darn that really hurt! If I knew then what I know now as an RN, I would have insisted on a dissociative anesthetic like ketamine.

You are so correct my friend!

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