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#287155 - 11/20/17 10:54 PM Re: Knot strength [Re: AKSAR]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1728
Originally Posted By: AKSAR

High angle rescue teams these days seem to favor the ”tensionless hitch” to tie a rope to a tree. The tensionless hitch is clained to retain 100% of rope strength. However, it will not stay in place without a load.


Hmm... reminds me of quick alpine belays/anchors; just wrap a rock once or twice.
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#287157 - 11/21/17 12:09 AM Re: Knot strength [Re: Tjin]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6575
Loc: southern Cal
Or if you are really ancient, you remember when bodies were for belaying....

So where did Creek Stewart get the notion that the timber hitch was the strongest possible knot for an anchor? I may have not heard correctly, of course, but I believe the WC reruns these episodes a time or two, so stay tuned.
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#287158 - 11/21/17 12:51 AM Re: Knot strength [Re: AKSAR]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2018
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
High angle rescue teams these days seem to favor the ”tensionless hitch” to tie a rope to a tree.

Looks like simply a "round turn and two half hitches", an excellent knot that's been around forever but doesn't seem to get much respect. Except this fancy new one has more "round turns" and with a "figure-8-plus-carabiner" replacing the "two half hitches".

If you don't want to mess with a carabiner (like when you don't have one!), but still want something super-secure, you could just make 3 or 4 round turns and finish it off like a buntline hitch rather than with two half hitches. Slip this finishing knot if you want it to be easier to untie in an emergency (or for whatever purpose).

The round turns give you the strength and take the load, so you don't have much tension on the finishing knot.

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#287161 - 11/21/17 02:47 PM Re: Knot strength [Re: haertig]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6575
Loc: southern Cal
On a couple of occasions where we employed a tensionless hitch, we simply wrapped the tree several times and then anchored the end of the rope to yet another nearby tree,leaving some slack in the line in order to detect any movement in the system. The securing knot could be just about anything - I believe we used a bowline.
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#287163 - 11/21/17 05:10 PM Re: Knot strength [Re: hikermor]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1048
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Now that's some redundancy!

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#287166 - 11/21/17 06:34 PM Re: Knot strength [Re: clearwater]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6575
Loc: southern Cal
This was for an overhanging descent into a sink hole near Ashfork, AZ. 248 feet hanging free...Redundancy was welcome! Besides, it worked...
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#287168 - 11/22/17 06:57 PM Re: Knot strength [Re: hikermor]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 893
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
What was the snowmobile doing in the stream???

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#287170 - 11/22/17 10:22 PM Re: Knot strength [Re: Roarmeister]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6575
Loc: southern Cal
Short answer - getting wet and rusty.

The show was recreating and critiquing an actual event where the driver attempted to cross a frozen stream - didn't work. They anchored a long piece of webbing to the tree and winched the snowmobile out by affixing the other end around the tread. Basically the machine self extricated, without the driver getting wet....

My choice of anchor would involve a rewoven figure 8, along with multiple wraps around the tree. I love redundancy.
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#287176 - 11/23/17 01:56 AM Re: Knot strength [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1111
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Short answer - getting wet and rusty.

The show was recreating and critiquing an actual event where the driver attempted to cross a frozen stream - didn't work.


If a rider keeps sufficient speed, it is possible to skim across open water on a snow machine. People sometimes do this to get over a stream or pond. This has even led to a new wave of sporting events called snowmobile skipping, snowmobile watercross, snowmobile skimming, water skipping or puddle jumping. According to Wikipedia, the current over water distance record is 212 km (131.731 miles) by the Norwegian Morten Blien.
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#287177 - 11/23/17 02:02 PM Re: Knot strength [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6575
Loc: southern Cal
The driver in this event was not an expert, although an Olympic Greco-Roman wrestler. In the recreation, they demonstrated that smowmobile skids could make dandy improvised snowshoes, although I would think that real snowshoes would be great EDC on a snow machine.
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