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#285707 - 08/28/17 06:07 PM Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test?
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2191
If you had 15 min and then took your BOB through floodwater and rain - would your bag have survived? Did you pack the right stuff?

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#285711 - 08/28/17 07:33 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4592
Loc: SOCAL
My BOB is a truck. I'm like Wildman, when the hurricane first became known I'd have started packing the truck and in the case of Harvey, I'd have been bugged out, gone. I do the same with wildfires here in San Diego. Wildfires tend to be more localized, but the same principle applies. I pack the truck and leave it packed. If the wildfire gets to a point of threatening this house, I start the engine and drive away.

Hurricane Harvey should not have caught anyone by surprise. Wildman was not surprised. His thread on Tropical Storm Harvey began on the Aug 23rd.

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#285712 - 08/28/17 07:39 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Russ]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1054
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Russ
Hurricane Harvey should not have caught anyone by surprise. Wildman was not surprised. His thread on Tropical Storm Harvey began on the Aug 23rd.
Exactly!
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#285717 - 08/28/17 08:44 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1470
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
after reading Listening to Katrina, I decided to upgrade the capacity of my evacuation plan to include a small utility trailer... my SUV at the time would cube out before it massed out... my plan is to board up and ride out a CAT3 but evacuate for a CAT4... my old frame house may not be standing upon return, so the added capacity might just be needed for what I consider valuable

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/p/map.html

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#285721 - 08/28/17 11:14 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Montanero Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1130
Loc: North Carolina
We have the BOBs, and we have the more extensive camping backpacks. In an emergency, our BOBs can make it through a few days in safety and without too much discomfort. With a little more time we will have tents and cooking capabilities that are pretty substantial. This along with more comfort and clothing for a longer stay.

We can survive indefinitely with just the BOBs, but the rest would be much more comfortable and able to assist with helping others.

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#285723 - 08/28/17 11:49 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Montanero]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4592
Loc: SOCAL
There are BOB's and then there never-going-back bags. In my way of thinking, a BOB is for bugging out with minimal warning. You open a closet, grab the already packed bag and you are gone -- 30 seconds. A BOB is a useful tool for getting out of harms way at a moments notice.

A bag packed for HARVEY and the possibility of never-going-back (whatever the correct acronym) is necessarily more comprehensive and along with survival/daily living supplies, contains stuff that cannot be replaced: photo albums, necessary financial records and other personal stuff that cannot be replaced.

There will be many stories of regret following this storm.

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#285732 - 08/29/17 05:52 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Burncycle Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 508
Like people with good situational awareness, I find that those who are even interested in things like bug out bags or personal survival kits tend to be the type of people who avoid putting themselves in a position of having to use it in the first place.

For the majority of situations that may arise, having enough spare money for a weekend at a hotel, some fast food, and a full tank of gas until you figure out what to do and where to go next would make you vastly more prepared than most.

Key here, however, is a mentality that while the Government ostensibly is going to try and help you, there's a certain amount of individual responsibility being a member of society has. The idea is to maximize your chances of not being in a position in which you have to be rescued and become an additional burden on an already very taxed system. If, despite your best efforts, you find yourself in that dire position hopefully you understand that resources are already strained and planned ahead so that you can sustain yourself until help does arrive, and (ideally) what you can do in return to assist others should you be of able body, mind, spirit, and opportunity.

Events like Katrina and Harvey never cease to amaze me in how many people are utterly dependent on the system (and the shock once they find the system can break down), but also how adaptable and resilient people can be. Seeing people come out of the woodwork to help absolute strangers always gets me.

My bag would be in my vehicle with everything else. In this case, I probably wouldn't need to use it like I would other basics like a travel bag, but since there was ample warning I would be out of dodge prior to the rush. Some disasters (Earthquakes etc) you don't get that warning and it becomes a more difficult proposition.

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#285736 - 08/29/17 06:20 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2002
Loc: Great Plains
I think people also become overly complacent and over-reliant on technology. Even with unlimited resources- which obviously aren't available- the government couldn't evacuate everyone immediately. There aren't enough boats, choppers, etc to do it. And in big emergencies we see repeatedly that no only are EMS overwhelmed but the cell phone systems are, too.
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#285738 - 08/29/17 07:22 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Tjin Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1697
I like the idea of traveling light through life and keep the things I own down. (although I do have too many hobbies...)

Most pictures I have are digital, all important documents I have are also digitized. I have them encrypted and saved over multiple storage devices, including a Corsair Flash Survivor (waterproof and crushproof USB flash drive).

So there are very few things I would call essential. There are very few items I'm really attached to and I'm insured. So anything that's lost can be replaced (well expect important documents, but I have backups of those).

Loading up your car completely full, then add a trailer, seems to me to be a waste of time, fuel, maneuverability, and reliability.
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#285743 - 08/29/17 12:39 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
wildman800 Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2801
Loc: La-USA
Some very interesting responses here. In my circumstances, I have a severely disabled DD1 and an almost disabled DW. Removing them from danger is inconvenient and a logistical nightmare but much more desirable than trying to get a 250+ LBS wheelchair into a small boat (cannot be done safely) along with it's 140LBS passenger. Hence I have invested in a 1/2 ton truck, a wheelchair capable minivan, and a camper with a toybox/bedroom. We have the ability to leave the van behind but that means more logistical awkwardness in handling the wheelchair.

The camper provides housing with full hygiene, cooking, sleeping, water supplies, passive communications, & storage capabilities. The truck provides for power/fuels, GHB's, tools, small comforts (exterior chairs & tables), & additional passenger space.

DD1 & DW have BoB's in the minivan. DW has a GHB & I have a Minute Man Bag (Battle Rattle) in the truck. The camper has a variety of gear in the toybox.

There has been some unexpected plot complications in attaining & maintaining HurCon 3 w/a HurCon 2 preps completed. Maintaining such a high readiness for 6 days has been easy with minimum inconvenience. I will file an AAR after this storm clears us completely around Friday.

Always remember the military axiom: Amateurs speak of tactics, Professionsls speak of Logistics, Logistics, and Logistics. It does no good to field an army and not be able to keep said army supplied with beans, bullets, appropriate clothing, shelter, etc. I recommend everyone to make a very detailed examination of Operation Barbarossa ( the German invasion of Russia). Pay particular attention to the "oddities" of Russia that the German Intelligence agencies failed to take notice of. Russian railroad tracks versus European railroad tracks, the Russian Army Reserve system, intentional Russian mapping errors, etc. All these factors doomed Operation Barbarossa to eventual failure.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#285744 - 08/29/17 01:05 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: wildman800]
Tjin Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1697
Originally Posted By: wildman800

Always remember the military axiom: Amateurs speak of tactics, Professionsls speak of Logistics, Logistics, and Logistics. It does no good to field an army and not be able to keep said army supplied with beans, bullets, appropriate clothing, shelter, etc.


Having too much creates logistical issues, so I'm a fan of having just enough.

Even at a household level, this can mean a lot. A bigger freezer to store lots of food; Takes more space (expensive in some places) and power. Prepare the freezer for power loss; add a generator (would not care that much if the content of mine tiny freezer needs to be thrown away). Well, a generator costs money and needs fuel and maintenance. So add fuel cans, spare parts, time and tools for maintenance. Obviously, everybody needs to known how to use everything, in case you are not there. So there is some training involved. Adding things require more and more logistics behind it to keep everything running.

Even professional organisations can turn things into a burden. An example I have seen in Asia; they bought a new fire fighting foam system. But did not integrate it into a regular fire engine. They stuck it in a van. So it always showed up late, very few people are actually trained with it and the end result is; nice new toy, money spent, space was taken at the station and very little actual effect achieved.

And there are so many other examples, where adding things, just makes logistics harder, but does not really help with the end result.
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#285748 - 08/29/17 02:06 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Tjin]
M_a_x Online   happy
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 936
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Tjin
nice new toy, money spent, space was taken at the station and very little actual effect achieved.

And there are so many other examples, where adding things, just makes logistics harder, but does not really help with the end result.


Those are typical examples of inadequate requirements management. Bad requirements management is one of the top reasons for project failure. Good logistics considers requirements and priorities.
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If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#285768 - 08/29/17 08:48 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Ren Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 92

Does make me wonder if a big dry barrel would be useful.

Put bag in barrel, and then hopefully it'll float and won't need to be carried. Just tether it to you with rope/webbing.

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#285769 - 08/29/17 09:13 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1470
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
I'm always amazed when I see pictures of people that live on the Tropical Gulf Coast that don't have decent rain gear...wet clothing and any breeze can suck your core body heat pretty rapidly

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#285773 - 08/29/17 10:36 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Ren]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1054
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Ren
Does make me wonder if a big dry barrel would be useful.

Put bag in barrel, and then hopefully it'll float and won't need to be carried. Just tether it to you with rope/webbing.
A better solution would be to use a dry duffle. Get the kind with shoulder straps. Then you can carry it as a pack on dry land, or tow it behind you in the water, as you suggest. Loaded appropriately, they will easily float. (As long as you don't try to load it with 10,000 rounds of ammo. smile ) In a pinch they might even work as emergency floatation if you accidently step into deeper water.

The SealLine website gives an idea of the range of options available. (Usual disclaimer. No affiliation.... yada yada.) There are other good manufacturers as well.

We have a bunch of these things in various sizes. Small ones that will fit in the hatches of our sea kayaks, as well as big ones that we've used on raft trips. We also use them when traveling coastal areas by water taxi or when flying in via float planes. That way if someone fumbles a bag into the water when unloading on a beach, your stuff stays dry. And if it is pouring down rain when you get to your campsite, your gear stays dry until you get your shelter set up. They should work equally well for anyone who might have to evacuate during flooding.


Edited by AKSAR (08/29/17 10:42 PM)
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#285774 - 08/29/17 10:38 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Ren]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5994
Loc: southern Cal
You don't need a barrel,necessarily. Put your packin a plastic bag or wrap carefully in a poncho. Without water or really heavy items, most packs will float surprisingly well. I have done this when forced into the water on canyon trips...
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#285775 - 08/29/17 11:29 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Ren Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 92
Temporarily lost a 75L ruck with a camping gear and weeks worth of food down a stream as a teen, do remember it floating well smile

The idea was the bag+barrel weight displaces water over a greater area, therefore rides higher in the water.
So less drag, and should float in shallower water.
Question is how more effective that'd be than just using a dry bag, for a reasonable sized dry barrel.

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#285776 - 08/29/17 11:44 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Ren]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1054
Loc: Alaska
The problem I see with a barrel is that it would be a pain if you need to pack it over land for any distance. What happens if you use it to cross one flooded area, then get to land and have to carry it, then have to cross another flooded area?

The dry duffle like I described above is a much more versatile solution, in my opinion. You can carry it on your back, take it off and float it, then easily put it back on your back.

How high either one floats will depend entirely on how full and heavy you pack it.


Edited by AKSAR (08/29/17 11:44 PM)
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#285777 - 08/29/17 11:52 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Ren Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 92
Can use a barrel harness, which would be kept dry inside the barrel when crossing water.


A dry bag/duffle with removable straps would be cool. Ah Sea to Summit has one, so they do exist. Seems better option than having your straps dragged through the water.


Edited by Ren (08/29/17 11:58 PM)

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#285778 - 08/30/17 12:00 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Ren]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5994
Loc: southern Cal
I have a couple of dry bags with back pack straps. Great for water tight, but I would not want to carry one any significant distance...
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Geezer in Chief

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#285779 - 08/30/17 12:11 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1054
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I have a couple of dry bags with back pack straps. Great for water tight, but I would not want to carry one any significant distance...
You probably would like carrying a barrel even less, I suspect.

The SealLine Pro Portage looks like the way to go. I haven't used one, but it appears to have a decent adjustable (and removable) suspension system.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#285780 - 08/30/17 12:57 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: AKSAR]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1929
Loc: Colorado
I feel very lucky to live in a place that is not prone to any natural disasters. Most of my plans are for bugging IN. Like for the occasional heavy snowstorm that could trap us in the house for a few days. Compared to what others have to plan for, getting through a snowstorm is a piece of cake (relatively).

Even my version of a mobile Bug Out Bag is really a Bug In bag geared towards surviving in a stranded car for a few days.

So my Bug Out Bag would definitely NOT survive the Harvey test. Not even close.

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#285781 - 08/30/17 02:20 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Montanero Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1130
Loc: North Carolina
A properly waterproofed backpack is actually difficult to sink.

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#285841 - 09/02/17 06:28 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1821
Loc: MINNESOTA
a heavy plastic liner is a major bit of canoe tripping gear.
several sizes are avalible.i put an old liner in my Duluth pack and a new one inside that.the old one protects the inner bag.
more than once I have had packs floating in the bilge water during heavy rain.

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#285857 - 09/03/17 01:33 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: Ren]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 973
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
If you can find one big enough, Zip-lock makes bags more than big enough for a moderate size duffle bag. Stick it in the end pocket of duffle when not needed. I keep an overnight bag with one in the trunk for when work sends me on site visits. It's normal use is for dirty clothes but will do double duty.

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#285862 - 09/03/17 12:54 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Montanero Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1130
Loc: North Carolina
I have not had very good luck with those extra large zip locks. The plastic is thick enough, but the closure is not reliable. I prefer contractor grade bags, they are larger, more durable, and you can close them easily.

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#285864 - 09/03/17 05:03 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
Ren Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 92

After some more pondering...

An tyre inner tube is the way to improve the buoyancy of a bag suitably waterproofed. And if on land, and need a fire going in wet conditions a bit of rubber does the trick.

No disagreement that a rucksack can float in deep enough water, just flood water may not be that deep.

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#285868 - 09/03/17 07:40 PM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: wildman800]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1214
Loc: here
Wildman800, I agree with your point concerning logistics. I think what most of us do is to easily get lost in the supply side of it. We tend to think in terms of amount; usually a lot. We don't think about time, duration, mobility, and destination in light of our situation. I feel that people need to closely read hot washes and after action reports from any source that they can be attained. And, of course, the input and insights of the Forum members is a great resource. I look forward to your AAR.
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"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#286519 - 09/29/17 01:03 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2191
Re-packing some kits...learning from stories on the news...

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#286523 - 09/29/17 03:34 AM Re: Would your Bug Out Bag pass the Harvey test? [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1470
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
a case for extra currency in case of a weather emergency ... my military service was from Feb 1970 to the end of the air war in Aug 73 with duty stations in Japan and the Philippines, and multiple TDY to Okinawa and Thailand...spending a lot of off duty time frequenting establishments that served adult beverages served by young female local nationals...to a person, all of the older bar girls wore what we called baht bracelets or "di di mao" (Vietnamese for to leave quickly) bracelets... the baht (Thai) bracelets were inscribed with the weight in grams of the gold that the charm contained...when they accrued a little more money they converted it to another gold charm... they carried their wealth with them, and if threatened, could flee at a moment's notice

faced with a situation with wide spread prolonged power outage as those reported in Puerto Rico, where ATMs, and credit card readers are not operable, coupled with reported runs on banks that could exhaust their cash reserves, you might want to evaluate the amount of currency you have on hand.., perhaps stashing an extra couple hundred in small bills might be a good idea during certain high threat seasons of the year...


Edited by LesSnyder (09/29/17 07:00 PM)

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