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#284938 - 07/10/17 10:03 PM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: AKSAR]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 952
Loc: Channeled Scablands
The new things I have learned from these links is that bear spray has a spotty history when it comes to predatory black bears. Also that some carry birdshot for a warning/diversion, but that too was unsuccessful in one of these cases.

But I suppose we should really be getting back to flashlights and pocketknives.


Edited by clearwater (07/10/17 10:08 PM)

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#284941 - 07/11/17 02:29 AM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: Montanero]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5796
Loc: southern Cal
I don't camp with sharks, but i have dived in their waters, especially off San Miguel Island, which has some nifty historic shipwrecks. The thing there is to spend as little time as possible on the surface. Get in, get under - get up, get out, making as little splash and disturbance as possible. Like bears,sharks are relatively unpredictable. There are procedures which diminish your chances of a shark encounter,but nothing is guaranteed.

Cal Game and Fish, I understand, does not allow any of their personnel to dive in that area. There was at least one fatality a few years ago - a commercial fisherman who was using motorized equipment on the surface.

Wherever you are, learn and study the local hazards, and adjust your procedures accordingly
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#284944 - 07/11/17 03:11 AM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: AKSAR]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1286
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Ah, the seasonal debate is back.
Yup. Must be that time of year.

Only three pages in, and we've already had the mandatory spray discussion, the obligatory minimum caliber debate, the essential shot placement analysis, and the 'should I buy a bigger gun' question. We also have it on good authority that "The idaho bear is still on the hunt for tasty humans or dogs". And we have been treated with the ever popular "you don't have to run faster than the bear" joke. As an added bonus, we've even got a "bear shark" meme.

Any topics we've failed to cover? Has anyone learned anything really new? Has the discussion changed anyone's opinion?



I agree. Seems this topic comes up every year and the same old arguments come forth.

None of these discussions change my opinion or thoughts on bears. After a lifetime of seeing and encountering bears in their natural habitat, I am not sacred of them - but respect them.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#284947 - 07/11/17 04:37 AM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: clearwater]
Phaedrus Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1905
Loc: Great Plains
Why wouldn't the same topics come up repeatedly? Bears are still there and the population of the internet changes daily. What is an old discussion for one is new to another. Also people move in and out of conversations as topics become relevant to them. For example while I've always respected and admired bears in general in the past I hadn't been very concerned with the notion of bear defense since there aren't many bears in MN or SD. In a week or so though I will be hiking and camping in bear country for the first time so now it's relevant to me.
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#284950 - 07/11/17 02:33 PM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: clearwater]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 952
Loc: Channeled Scablands
"After the Colorado attack wildlife officers did not find any food that would have attracted the bear so they have set bear traps in the area and plan to continue a search for the bear with scent dogs on Monday."

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/...usly-dangerous/

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#284951 - 07/11/17 06:46 PM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: Phaedrus]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1874
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
My SD Enhanced Permit is honored in WY, MT and ID so I will certainly be taking my CCW (generally an HK P2000 in 9mm), but I may opt for the VP9 or P30S this time.

Maybe not the best for bear, but I do admire your choice in handguns! I have the P30S and my son has the VP9. Love them both. Haven't tried a P2000 yet. Equal to my admiration regarding your choice of firearms, is my admiration of the fact that you can actually conceal them. Nothing on your list is exactly "small".

Moving back to the topic at hand - the eternal debate of handgun vs. spray - if you choose the gun, something in .45-70 would be nice:


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#284955 - 07/12/17 07:29 AM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: haertig]
Phaedrus Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1905
Loc: Great Plains
Originally Posted By: haertig
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
My SD Enhanced Permit is honored in WY, MT and ID so I will certainly be taking my CCW (generally an HK P2000 in 9mm), but I may opt for the VP9 or P30S this time.

Maybe not the best for bear, but I do admire your choice in handguns! I have the P30S and my son has the VP9. Love them both. Haven't tried a P2000 yet. Equal to my admiration regarding your choice of firearms, is my admiration of the fact that you can actually conceal them. Nothing on your list is exactly "small".

Moving back to the topic at hand - the eternal debate of handgun vs. spray - if you choose the gun, something in .45-70 would be nice:


I'm not a small guy. wink The P30S & VP9 will conceal fairly well if you have a good holster (I have a Garrett Industries Silent Thunder IWB for every gun I ever carry, about eight of them). It comes down to how you dress, too. I'm a pretty low key guy; mostly it's jeans and T-shirts for me, and if it's not real hot I'll often have an unbuttoned and untucked shirt on over it. No skinnny jeans, either!

My P30S has been worked over by Gray Guns (super tuned trigger, optimized for CCW) and wears Trijicon HD sights. My P2000 and VP9 have night sights as well. When I go hiking I often carry a USPf9 with an Inforce APL in a chest rig (Hill People Gear Kit Bag). If I'm way "off the grid" then I will carry one in the Kit Bag and another on my hip.

A 12 ga with slugs would be about as good as anything I could reasonably see having with me. A Brenneke K.O. should shoot completely through an average size bear.
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#284985 - 07/14/17 01:44 AM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: clearwater]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2698
There is no handgun or handgun load that will reliably stop a large bear.

If you absolutely must shoot a bear with something smaller than field artillery or a close air support aircraft, I would recommend a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. But it's better to avoid the bears.

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#284987 - 07/14/17 04:09 AM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: chaosmagnet]
Phaedrus Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1905
Loc: Great Plains
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
There is no handgun or handgun load that will reliably stop a large bear.

If you absolutely must shoot a bear with something smaller than field artillery or a close air support aircraft, I would recommend a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. But it's better to avoid the bears.


Well, layers. I bought two large cans of Counter Assault bear spray. In all likelihood I won't be approached by a bear, and if I am the spray will probably do the job. Next I will have my 9mm sidearm(s) loaded with 147gr +P+ Underwood FN-FMJ penetrators. That load will likely get 3 feet or more of penetration. It's not ideal but it's portable and a guide in AK did kill a 1,000 lb grizzle with a similar load (and a large load of luck!). Plus the main threat is usually the two legged animal [aka humans] and the 9mm is ideal for that.

Lastly I do have Mossberg 500A in 12 gauge. It will be loaded with Brenneke K.O. slugs with maybe one or two rounds of 00 Buckshot at the end. My brother has a bum peg so we probably won't take many long hikes, probably I will have the 9mm on my hip, the shottie slung on my back and the bear spray at ready. My brother also has a 9mm and a 12 ga and I bought him spray as well.

The bears may get us but they'll have to work for it! wink
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#284989 - 07/14/17 04:40 AM Re: Recent Bear Attacks [Re: clearwater]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2562
Loc: Alberta, Canada
The focus on hardware in this debate is impressive.

I'll admit that I have a certain affinity for hardware. But I am also cautious about inverted arguments, i.e., "This is the solution! Now what was the problem?"

So allow me a contrarian question: what is up with the bears? Why are they crunching on people this year? They don't act without a reason; that is inherently inefficient, and animals that survive are breathtakingly efficient.

A traveller who is fully attuned to the landscape he is walking through would, I imagine, be able to postulate some sort of facts-on-the-ground wisdom to solve this puzzle. Otherwise, he is just a clueless tourist.

So what is up with the bears?

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