Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#284239 - 04/16/17 07:18 AM tinned foots burst when they freeze?
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 412
Loc: UK
Survial Lilly shows a cache:

https://youtu.be/gy_el36iOIM

But what really interests me is the comments.

Do tinned foots burst when they freeze? If so; what is the food for a long term cache?
qjs

Top
#284241 - 04/16/17 08:02 AM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: quick_joey_small]
Herman30 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 205
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small


Do tinned foots burst when they freeze?

If the tinned food contain any fluid, it will expand when freezing and most likely crack open the tin, not 100% sure but a big risk nevertheless. I think the best choise would be tinned meat, they usually do not contain alot of fluid but mostly fat and therefore should not expand to the point of bursting the tin. In my oppinion best choise to store would be freeze dried food.

Top
#284242 - 04/16/17 08:20 AM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: quick_joey_small]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
Do tinned foots burst when they freeze? If so; what is the food for a long term cache?
qjs


That depends on the contents and type of can. Food with high a high percentage of water (e. g. soup) will expand when freezing. Cans will most certainly bulge (that´ll happen even when the can is open). Cans with a pull ring may burst there. Other cans - especially if they have air pockets - may survive. Food with a low percentage of water (e. g. canned tuna in olive oil) will not expand enough to do damage. Regards of that the freeze/thaw cycles may degrade the food. The solution would be freeze dried food or burrying deeper (which would be a good idea anyway.
Animals might find the food in the cache by it´s smell. That is why geocaches are not supposed to have food items in them.
It may not be obvious but the camouflage on this cache was not done very well. Branches do not naturally fall the way they were placed and geocachers sometimes place branches in that way to clearly mark the location of the cache. In German speaking countries this arrangement is called "Hasengrill".
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

Top
#284243 - 04/16/17 10:42 AM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: quick_joey_small]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 412
Loc: UK
M a x wrote:
> The solution would be... burrying deeper

so ground is only frozen near the top? How deep would one have to go to avoid freezing?

qjs

Top
#284244 - 04/16/17 11:23 AM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: quick_joey_small]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 939
Loc: Germany
Yes, the ground only freezes near the top. Deeper down it´s hot enough to melt rock. Basically the thickness of this layer depends on your lattitude and altitude. I live at about 50° North at 1000' of altitude above sea level. Around here we consider about 35" as safe. Closer to the equator the ground may not freeze at all and further north you´ll find permafrost. There the ground is frozen long and deep enough to preserve entire mammothes. At higher altutudes you may also find frozen ground to be very deep.
Short story: Get information about your area and act accordingly.
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

Top
#284245 - 04/16/17 12:49 PM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: quick_joey_small]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 340
Loc: CT
https://books.google.com/books?id=ji-Wrq...0UK&f=false

Page 342 from: Pile Design and Construction Practice, Fourth Edition
By Michael Tomlinson, John Woodward

TL:DR frostline as deep as 600mm or 2 feet, as a UK generalization.
_________________________
Florida Cracker, Cracker Pony...oh, look: key lime pie!

Top
#284246 - 04/16/17 01:06 PM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: M_a_x]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5999
Loc: southern Cal
Freeze dried as an alternative to canned food gets around the freezing problem, except that you must have water to reconstitute FD for consumption. Depending upon circumstances, water itself may be a scarce resource.

I understand that ground below the surface, but not at great depths, holds the yearly average temperature for the immediate area, so,if you know this, and that temperature is above freezing, you don't need to worry about freezing. Ideally, you will have real good cold storage

I like canned goods for long term storage because they are cheap, can often be consumed right out of the can, and store reasonably well for a fairly long time. I like FD when I am carrying the food on my back, and I know I can count on reasonable access to water.


Edited by hikermor (04/17/17 04:43 PM)
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#284258 - 04/18/17 10:01 PM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: quick_joey_small]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 309
Hi,
if you keep it dry, the usual
1-2 year, pasta/noodles/ramen, brown rice , flour , poptarts...
5+30+years most dry grains, white rice, most beans...
5+30+years most dry grains, white rice, most beans, sugar, ...

As for tins ,
I imagine the tall tins will last if kept dry,
the kind that require a can opener,
with lots of head space,
like a $1 can of 10-15oz of mackrel
or the short/rounds of chicken spread with thick pull tab cans
or the big squares or cylinders of white cheese with lots of head space

Freezing and Food Safety
Quote:
Frozen Cans
Cans frozen accidentally, such as those left in a car or basement in sub-zero temperatures, can present health problems. If the cans are merely swollen — and you are sure the swelling was caused by freezing — the cans may still be usable. Let the can thaw in the refrigerator before opening. If the product doesn't look and/or smell normal, throw it out. DO NOT TASTE IT! If the seams have rusted or burst, throw the cans out immediately, wrapping the burst can in plastic and disposing the food where no one, including animals can get it.

emerinfofood04 Food Safety of Frozen Canned Food - Fairfax County, Virginia
Quote:


Food Safety of Frozen Canned Food
More than pipes can freeze during icy weather. Frozen canned foods stored in unheated storage area may cause concern. If canned foods have frozen, they may still be safe to eat. Safety will depend on the condition of the can or jar. To evaluate, consider the following:
Metal Cans
• If the seams are still intact, the food is safe to use. Thaw gradually and store at room temperature.
• If the seam has broken and the food has thawed out, it should be discarded.
• If the seam has broken and food is still cold (below 41F), it may be safely transfer to a container. Store in the refrigerator or refreeze for future use.
• For an extra margin of safety, all low acid foods (meats, fish, poultry and vegetables) must be discarded.
Glass Jars
• If jars have cracked or broken during freezing, discard
• If the seal is still intact, the food is safe to use. Thaw gradually and store at room temperature. Recheck seal once thawed.
• If the seal is broken and food is thawed, discard
• If the seal is broken and food is below 41F, it may be safely transferred to a container. Store in the refrigerator or refreeze for future use.
• All food that is frozen in glass jars should be examined for spoilage before use. All low acid foods (meats, poultry, fish, and vegetables) must be discarded.
General
• Discard any product with an off color or odor. DO NOT TASTE food that looks or smells suspicious. When in Doubt, Throw it Out.
For more information, please contact the Fairfax County Health Department 703-246-2444; TTY: 711.



arctic.ru/558250 How to store canned food for 100 years without a fridge / Arctic
Quote:

The quality of black and green tea tends to improve. When stored at subzero temperatures, tea leaves become covered with tiny cracks. This makes tea more aromatic and delicious. Permafrost also benefits vodka because various chemical substances impairing its taste are destroyed during long-term storage inside permafrost, and vodka starts tasting better.
Members of the 1980 and 2010 expeditions placed wheat, rye, oat and barley grains inside the permafrost to see whether they would retain their properties.
"We brought them here, grew them, and they yielded impressive harvests. We also ground wheat and rye grains into fine flour and baked some really safe and high-quality bread," Ulanin said.

Top
#284262 - 04/19/17 06:37 PM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: quick_joey_small]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 857
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
M a x wrote:
> The solution would be... burying deeper

so ground is only frozen near the top? How deep would one have to go to avoid freezing?

qjs


Depends where you live. Where I live on the Canadian prairies the frost goes +6' deep every winter and lakes can easily have 3'-4' ice thickness. Burying below frost line is impractical by hand but if you mechanically excavate and build a deep pantry and cover with dirt and snow (acts as an insulator) you could store a sizeable amount of food stuffs.

Top
#284263 - 04/20/17 04:32 PM Re: tinned foots burst when they freeze? [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5999
Loc: southern Cal
"The quality of black and green tea tends to improve. When stored at subzero temperatures, tea leaves become covered with tiny cracks. This makes tea more aromatic and delicious. Permafrost also benefits vodka because various chemical substances impairing its taste are destroyed during long-term storage inside permafrost, and vodka starts tasting better."

The wonderful things you learn at ETS! i have often wondered why my brother's tea and vodka tastes so good. He lives in Minnesota. Nowweknow.....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, chaosmagnet, cliff 
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
2 registered (wildman800, Rusty), 223 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Jethro, qwikjoeysmall, Cowherd35, pecenco, jacklii
5228 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Baking soda and super glue epoxy
by dougwalkabout
What did you do today to prepare?
by hikermor
01:24 AM
get a cheap laptop
by CANOEDOGS
01:10 AM
Big Amazon Sale on Morakniv - this evening only
by Dagny
01:09 AM
wazoo belt alternative
by LesSnyder
09:50 PM
building in a fire zone
by hikermor
04:56 PM
rug could buy time between rattlesnake bite, anti
by qwikjoeysmall
02:55 PM
Happy Hanukkah
by Jeanette_Isabelle
02:52 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.