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#283582 - 01/29/17 07:19 PM A different sort of prep
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Current events got me thinking: how would you prepare for a situation in which you are not allowed to return to your home country after traveling abroad?

It seems you could wait it out, or alternatively, if you’re permanently stuck abroad, you’ll probably have to liquidate your possessions (unless they have been confiscated). How do you arrange for somebody to have legal authority to take care of your property in your absence? Is this the “power of attorney”? What if you have items that require a license to handle or transport?

If your representative has to sell off everything you own (including your vehicle), how do you get the money abroad? I am guessing a part of this would be finding a country that will take you in if you’re permanently stuck.

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#283583 - 01/29/17 07:23 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: Bingley]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
This topic is appropriate here and I like the way Bingley's post approaches the issue.

As we all know there are potential landmines here that could easily take this thread into political territory. I would prefer to not have to lock the thread, please stay off politics entirely here.


Thanks,

chaosmagnet

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#283585 - 01/29/17 07:43 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: Bingley]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
What I think you need to look into are "trusts". There are many benefits to these for retirement planning, estate planning, etc., as well as potential for your situation of getting stuck overseas. You can specify who has access to the trust, under what conditions, etc. Pretty much everything we own is in our family trust.

The reason I am thinking about trusts is that your representative wouldn't have to go through the trouble to gain access to your individually owned homes, cars, bank accounts, investments, etc. These are all "owned" by the trust. And if your representative is a trustee, then they have access to it all. Of course you can set the trust up to limit a trustees access, but if you really wanted to give them the whole kaboodle, you could. You set this all up when you create the trust. And you can change the setup later, as your circumstances change.


Edited by haertig (01/29/17 07:47 PM)

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#283586 - 01/29/17 07:58 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: Bingley]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Can't answer all the questions, but let me try a couple.

I have both a "power of attorney" and a "durable power of attorney" on file with my attorney (but it could also be a trusted friend/relative). Both these documents give the person the authority to act totally in my stead---that includes selling property etc. The difference between the two documents is that in most, if not all, jurisdictions in the US, the standard power of attorney is null and void if you are disabled or medically incapable/disabled. The durable version specifically addresses that condition. I think these documents are advisable for most adults, regardless of traveling overseas or not, and I think it is probably the most important prep you can make. As it needs to be valid in your home jurisdiction, it is easiest to have it done in that jurisdiction. Usually, if not in all cases, the signature needs to witnessed and notarized.

Transferring money overseas: depends on how much and what you need for how long. In most places, your credit cards will work, and you can get cash from local ATMs using your credit cards. There are other ways depending where you are. Western Union can transfer cash to people in several different countries; there are other services doing the same thing, often specializing in dealing particular countries. If you are overseas long enough and in a location where you can have a local Bank account, you can have money wired into your local bank account. Social security will forward you money to some, but not all, countries overseas.

Local laws and regulations, fees, etc. all will affect the details of how exactly things will be done.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#283587 - 01/29/17 08:07 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: Bingley]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
As for coming back to you home country. Not sure if the US has the same thing, but if i travel abroad to a country with possible issues, i'll register my visit at my ministry of external affairs. It's just a webpage and takes 5 minutes. If there are possible issues the ministry of external affairs will try to arrange something to move civilians back home. This varies from millitary helicopters to just charter planes. Being registered, means they will contact you first. If this is needed, i would rather be on the first flight. This recovery of citizens has happened quite a lot of times.

The ministry of external affairs also helps with any legal issues, although to what extend depends on the country you are in.

As always, one of the best way to get things done is money. You might not get back, but you can generally arrange a lot of other things. Just hope your plastic is still working...
_________________________


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#283588 - 01/29/17 08:08 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: Bingley]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
It would be a good idea to get information on the required steps to take when your depature is delayed due to circumstances you don´t have under your control. That might be a good practice even if you do not expect to not be allowed to go back to your home country.
If you are permanently stuck, you might be able to open a bank account and get the money tranferred. Again check on the laws about how much you can transfer and what kind proof you need for the origin of the money (e. g.: in Germany more than 10000€ must be reported by the bank due to laws against money laundry).
As for finding a country to take you in, you might be able to claim refugee status. In that case I´d try to find a NGO that supports people during this process.
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#283589 - 01/29/17 08:11 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: haertig]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Trusts can work also, but there are some subtle issues. For example, just because you have a trust, with another person also a trustee, does not automatically give that person access to property that is not specifically "titled" in the name of the trust.

For example, if you have a trust etc, but have a bank account in your name only, the trust/trustee would not have the authority to withdraw or obtain funds from that account, but the person holding the "power of attorney" would.

Making sure what property is titled how and who can access it can trip people up at worst time. Even if you set up a trust, a power of attorney is usually recommended/required to cover the situation of something not being titled in the trust's name.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#283590 - 01/29/17 08:53 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: Bingley]
Quietly_Learning Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
Based on the comments of Haertig and Bws48 a trust sounds logical but how would you sign-off on all the paperwork overseas?
(Just thinking of all of the cases of identity theft I can't imagine it would be easy to get everything approved.)

I see great value in Max's comment about seeking out a NGO and if necessary, claiming refugee status.

Per Tjin, I found this for US citizens to register when overseas: https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/go/step.html/


Bws48 also mentioned a power of attorney. This sounds like a good plan to implement before any overseas travel as you could become sick or injured on any trip.

Lots more things to think about before I plan my next trip...

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#283591 - 01/29/17 08:55 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: bws48]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: bws48
For example, just because you have a trust, with another person also a trustee, does not automatically give that person access to property that is not specifically "titled" in the name of the trust.

Well, of course not. That should be obvious.

Quote:
For example, if you have a trust etc, but have a bank account in your name only, the trust/trustee would not have the authority to withdraw or obtain funds from that account, but the person holding the "power of attorney" would.

This can get dicey as well. For example, my wife had Power of Attorney, Durable Power of Attorney, Medical Power of Attorney, and Conservator/Guardianship of two elderly relatives. She was also a co-signer on their checking accounts. A very good set up, one would think. But when they died, she could NOT get immediate access to their bank accounts. Eventually, yes. Immediately, no. This is contrary to what you would expect. If the banks don't want to give you the money right away, there's not much you can do about it. You'll eventually get it, but you are at the banks whim in the short term. For her aunt, she wanted to withdraw $5000 for funeral expenses. Nope. The banks wouldn't allow it, even with all her "Powers of..." We had to pay for the funeral, and eventually got the money later. For her dad, we knew from experience, pull the funeral money out right away, immediately after his death, before the bank decided to deny it. Note that Conservator/Guardianship gives you even more power than Powers of Attorney. But that didn't help. I imagine with the large amounts of money that your representative would have to be withdrawing for your overseas plight, not just a measly $5000 for a funeral, you might be in for more banking hassle than you anticipate with your Powers of Attorney.

With our trust, we also have Powers of Attorney, Durables, Medicals, HIPPA, wills, etc. No Conservator/Guardianships though, because we are still mentally competent. These things are all necessary for good estate planning. And also a wise idea for the stuck abroad scenario.

But do they guaranty that everything will go smoothly? No, they don't. Even when you have your lawyer assist you with HIPPA forms, those don't guaranty that you can get medical information on, say, your spouse when they're in trouble. The hospital might just say "no", and that's it. They can dump new requirements on you, like "we only accept HIPPA forms if they've been completed in the last year", etc. Sure, call your lawyer and pay good money to have them pursue things for you, but by the time that's all said and done, it's already too late.

Bottom line: Do it - it can only help. But it doesn't guaranty anything.

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#283595 - 01/29/17 09:19 PM Re: A different sort of prep [Re: haertig]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Originally Posted By: haertig

Bottom line: Do it - it can only help. But it doesn't guaranty anything.


All too true!
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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