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#283386 - 01/16/17 08:48 PM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
One specialized application where alkalines are recommended is in avalanche transceiver beacons.

Most modern beacons have a charge indicator. When mine gets below about 80% I change batteries. The problem with rechargeable batteries is that they have a very steep decline curve as they approach the end of a charge. Alkaline batteries have a much more gradual decline of charge over time.

It would not be a good day, if you start a ski tour with your beacon showing a healthy charge, only to have it fall off about the time you or someone in your party get caught in a slide. If someone in your party is buried, and your beacon dies, you don't want to be wasting precious moments changing batteries so you can search for them. If you are the one buried, and your beacon dies, you will likely die too.

For more information on transceiver batteries see Avalanche Beacon Review - Batteries.
To compare batteries, see Battery Test Comparator
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#283391 - 01/16/17 09:48 PM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
What is the typical life of an alkline battery in today's transceivers? I ask because my experience with them was thirty years ago; as I recall, we load them up, hung them around our necks, and left them there for about three weeks...Charge indicators, what are those used for???
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#283399 - 01/17/17 08:16 AM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: hikermor]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: hikermor
What is the typical life of an alkline battery in today's transceivers? I ask because my experience with them was thirty years ago; as I recall, we load them up, hung them around our necks, and left them there for about three weeks...Charge indicators, what are those used for???


When you turn on a modern beacon, it will do a self check and show battery status in bars or percentage.

You can transceive with relatively low battery, but search mode sucks life out of transceive quickly. Batteries are cheap, so I just replace them for each week trip. Not sure if modern ones are more economical then the older ones or not. The new ones have 3 antenna's and digitale processors...

Then i try to use those alkalines in less important things, like bike lights that tend to be stolen here when you leave them on your bike...
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#283403 - 01/17/17 02:43 PM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: hikermor]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1177
Loc: Channeled Scablands
The information with both my old transceivers and two I bought three years ago say a set of alkis should last the season.

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#283417 - 01/18/17 12:40 AM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: hikermor]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
There are two cases not mentioned:

The first is when you want a detectable loss in performance prior to the total loss of performance. With NiMH batteries, the voltage remains large constant until the end of the battery life, then experience a rapid drop in voltage. Alkalines have a noticeable loss of voltage over the life of the battery. Normally the constant voltage is preferred, but there's not a lot of warning when it dies requiring you to carry spares. This can come as a very unpleasant surprise when using regulated devices like the current generation of pocket lights.

The second is that even with LSD NiMH batteries, the storage life is considerably less then the current generation alkaline batteries. The alkaline will last 5-10 years (in the package) before losing the same capacity as the rechargeable lose in 1 year. For an emergency kit, where you may not be inclined to top off the kit batteries every 6-12 months, alkaline are a the best cost/performance choice.
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#283420 - 01/18/17 08:05 AM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: Mark_R]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: Mark_R

The second is that even with LSD NiMH batteries, the storage life is considerably less then the current generation alkaline batteries. The alkaline will last 5-10 years (in the package) before losing the same capacity as the rechargeable lose in 1 year. For an emergency kit, where you may not be inclined to top off the kit batteries every 6-12 months, alkaline are a the best cost/performance choice.


Easy way of having some spared charged and ready and use the charging moment as a first in - first out rotation from the supply of charged batteries. Just swap the stack with the ones from the emergency kit when you check them.
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#283421 - 01/18/17 02:06 PM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: Tjin]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
For long term storage of battery powered items, I usually go to primary lithium batteries - light weight, good in the cold, and they have a looong shelf life.

In practice, I find it easy to switch out batteries before they expire, put them on the charger and they are good to go very soon. and nothing leaks


Edited by hikermor (01/18/17 02:07 PM)
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#283422 - 01/18/17 02:14 PM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I have had a lithium primary "leak". Nothing like an alkaline leak/meltdown, but the battery got a tad gunky; the light survived. Never seen any signs of leakage from a NiMH rechargeable.

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#283473 - 01/22/17 12:11 PM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: hikermor]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
Thanks for the comparison. I think there is a slight slip in your math.
Originally Posted By: hikermor

I recently bought eneloop rechargs for a dollar apiece. Rechargs are rated for 1000 cycles, but lets be conservative and say they will give 500 cycles, allowing for loss, etc.


Originally Posted By: hikermor
For 500 cycles you will pay $41 dollars, plus tax and shipping.

It seems that this should be 500 cycles per rechargeable (40?).

Originally Posted By: hikermor
The equivalent in alkys will cost you $325 (500x0.65), a significant difference.

That would be 500 alkys for each rechargeable bought. That massively tips the scale in favor of the rechargeable.

Inspired by your calculation I did some research and calculation of my own. I found that I could get 1900mAh Eneloops around 2€ a piece (shipping and taxes included) rated for 2100 cycles and Alkalines with compareable capacity for 0.25€ a piece when bought in bulk. The cost for electricity to put in the Eneloop would be around 3€ over the life time allowing for low charger effectivity.
That makes 525€ in alkalines or between 5€(2100 cycles) and 11€(500 cycles) in rechargeables for those 2100 cycles.
With Eneloops it almost makes sense using them in extremely low drain devices like electronic clocks.
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#283475 - 01/22/17 01:57 PM Re: Cost of rechqrgeable baatteries vs. alkalines [Re: M_a_x]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The $40 is the hypothetical one time price for the charger.
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