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#283232 - 01/05/17 12:41 AM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: Russ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2816
Loc: La-USA
I well remember the annual audits!
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The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#283235 - 01/05/17 04:38 PM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: Russ]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 328
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Why would they poll on the sheepshank? I know how to tie it, but consider it more of a fun trick than survival knot. That question alone makes me question this survey. Now if they'd polled on the bowline or even a figure 8 I'd give them a smidge more credit.

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#283238 - 01/06/17 01:23 AM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: Russ]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 366
Loc: CT
I caught the first two hours of Longitude last night.
Fascinating movie. I will finish it tonight.
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#283239 - 01/06/17 08:06 AM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: Russ]
M_a_x Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1042
Loc: Germany
For the longitude about 4 seconds translate into a minute of arc due to the earth´s rotation. So 5 minutes of arc would translate into 20 seconds. Errors in the measuring of the elevation go on top of this.
Depending on the vessel 5 minutes of arc may the all accuracy you get with an accurate timepiece.
The calculation for cel-nav takes the known deviation of the timepiece into account. That´s why certified timepieces do not only have a maximum acceptable deviation per day but also for different orientations.
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#283242 - 01/06/17 06:06 PM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: Russ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2816
Loc: La-USA
We would use our shortwave radio to receive the time tick from Boulder everyday at 1200 and then note the chronometer error.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#283244 - 01/06/17 07:37 PM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: MoBOB]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2067
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: MoBOB
You would have to invest in a certified chronometer that is either an automatic or manual wind.

They may be certified to some maximum error, but you still need to test them to find out what the actual error of your particular watch is (I'm calling it a "watch" here for simplicity, "chronometer" would be more technically correct).

In order to test your watch, you need a known time source, which would be missing after a grand disaster. So hopefully you tested and documented your watches error rate BEFORE the disaster. But even if you had a good watch, with a previously tested and documented error rate, you could only use that to adjust your calculations for so long. Eventually you would want to reset your watch to the known time standard again. But the known time standard is still unavailable, due to the disaster. A good watch would certainly serve you better than an el-cheapo non-certified one. But it would only serve you for so long, not indefinitely.

This is the gist of my concern in labeling CelNav "a backup for when everything has gone to heck". That may be true, as long as "everything" does not include a good time standard to reset your watch to. CelNav would be good for a while, but you would eventually need a known time standard, or a known location to reset your watch from. You would also need an almanac that contains data for a very long time. Or be a math whiz in spherical trigonometry (which most people have never even heard of) to calculate everything from scratch. The current "Long Term Almanac" goes to year 2050. Enough to cover my lifetime, but not my kids.

Long Term Almanac

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#283245 - 01/06/17 08:11 PM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: Russ]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 853
Loc: Southern California
While the dearth of life skills is the proverbial Elephant in the Room for the millennials (born 1981-2001), the article itself isn't much better then clickbait. There's no link to the survey, or anything representing a complete list of the questions.

As for the Sheepshank knot. That's an odd knot to test on. I've never actually used it, preferring the dog shank (pouch knot) or alpine butterfly loop. You'd be better served by testing the workhorse knots (clove hitch, square knot, figure 8 family, etc)

****************
Originally Posted By: haertigIn

This is the gist of my concern in labeling CelNav "a backup for when everything has gone to heck". That may be true, as long as "everything" does not include a good time standard to reset your watch to. CelNav would be good for a while, but you would eventually need a known time standard, or a known location to reset your watch from. You would also need an almanac that contains data for a very long time. Or be a math whiz in spherical trigonometry (which most people have never even heard of) to calculate everything from scratch. The current "Long Term Almanac" goes to year 2050.



The time standard would be a concern for a full TEOTWAWKI/PAW scenario. For that, you would need a sundial or some other pre-tech time keeping device to certify to, and the aforementioned math wiz (recall that the first celestial navigation tables were published in 1767, so it's far from impossible to work out the tables by hand).

But, for the general "Where the bleep am I" situation, it's not a bad skill to have. A relatively accurate watch, compass (you should have these when traveling anyway), star chart ($25), and inclinometer will let you know which direction to start rowing
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#283246 - 01/06/17 08:17 PM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: haertig]
Russ Online   content
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5074
Loc: SOCAL
I have a copy of the "Long Term Almanac". It's not a large book -- 10" x 7" and 1/4" thin.

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#283250 - 01/06/17 09:10 PM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: wildman800]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 857
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: wildman800
We would use our shortwave radio to receive the time tick from Boulder everyday at 1200 and then note the chronometer error.


Please! WWV is located in Fort Collins Colorado.
Please don't confuse it with that other strange town....

W and V used to be the first morse code letters radio kids would learn because WWV would ID in morse.

Lewis and Clark and Fremont had to do without WWV.

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#283251 - 01/06/17 09:15 PM Re: Millennials lack basic survival skills ... [Re: Russ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2816
Loc: La-USA
You're correct, I had forgotten....
_________________________
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The best luck is what you make yourself!

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