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#281843 - 08/26/16 01:06 AM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: Roarmeister]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 327
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister
Doug, can you explain what you mean by "common folding knives with a bias toward closure"? I've never heard that terminology before.

Hi,
Do you know/have used a lock back knife, like a buck folding knife?

When you open the knife a little, say 10-20 degrees, its snaps back shut.
It wants to stay closed.
It has bias toward closure.
If you shake the knife a little the blade doesn't open.

See 26339.attach

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#281846 - 08/26/16 03:33 AM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: chaosmagnet]
chaosmagnet Online   content
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3010
Loc: USA
My plan is to carry an LM Rebar, concealed in a pocket. I don't like doing without an OHO blade but I also don't want to have any run-ins with NYPD. Fortunately it will be a brief visit.

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#281847 - 08/26/16 04:19 AM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: chaosmagnet]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
I hear that some policemen may grab a folder, while it is closed, BY THE EXPOSED BLADE ONLY, then vigorously whip it. If the blade opens (or in this case if the handle "opens"), then they regard it a gravity knife. So be careful.

I wonder whether the best solution is to carry a fixed kitchen knife and carry it around wrapped in frilly tissue paper in a William & Sonoma bag.

Also, you cannot bring pepper spray into New York State. If you want something like that, you need to purchase locally. The merchant will have to record your name for the authorities. Only designated stores sell pepper spray.

Fortunately many parts of NYC are quite safe. But never lose your situation awareness no matter where you go.

Enjoy your trip!

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#281848 - 08/26/16 04:41 AM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: Bingley]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2029
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Bingley
Fortunately many parts of NYC are quite safe.

That's because nobody is around to cause any trouble. They're all in prison for having pocket knifes, pepper spray, 16oz sodas, or whatever.

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#281850 - 08/26/16 01:40 PM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: Roarmeister]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 1961
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister
Doug, can you explain what you mean by "common folding knives with a bias toward closure"? I've never heard that terminology before.


EMPnotImplyNuclear got it right. Virtually all folding knives except automatic (switchblade) knives have some mechanical means of keeping the blade closed while in your pocket, using a detent, spring, friction, etc., to prevent injuries. They are "biased" to stay closed and are designed to be opened only by moving the blade to overcome that tendency to stay closed. Because bias towards closure varies widely by design, manufacturing tolerances, wear, etc., some open more easily than others.

True Gravity knives have no bias towards closure or opening. They have a lock to keep them closed, but once the lock is released nothing happens unless you point them towards the ground or apply centrifugal force. Because there is no bias they open readily the same way for every person every time.

Automatic (switchblade) knives are biased to open, the blade wants to open and only stays closed because of a latch. Press the button or otherwise release that latch and the blade springs open.
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#281912 - 08/30/16 07:41 AM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 896
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Thanks for the explanation. I presume the design is for safety for the user. As try as I might I cannot swing any of my knives open, NYC cops must be talented indeed.

However, I am still mystified - my folders are mostly one handed operation. I really don't get the distinction between a knife that have can be opened with a violent swing or wrist action and a knife that can open simply by using the thumb on a hole or stud. The knife is open in less than a second in either case and ready for a use whether that use is to open a cardboard box or stab someone. To me it is a distinction without a practical difference. Even a push button operated switch blade or balisong knife doesn't open that much faster - or does it.

I guess authorities have to draw a line somewhere but that kind of distinction is lost on me. I can understand laws with a blade length (3" or less) or style (double edged Tanto vs a blunt tip) which can make a knife "less lethal".

Siggghhh, I would welcome back those simpler days of my childhood 48 yrs ago when my Dad gave me my first knife. He treated it as simple tool for the pocket and it never occurred to me that it was a weapon. He was a farmer and carpenter and used his 2 bladed pocketknife all the time. I just followed in his footsteps.

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#281913 - 08/30/16 01:18 PM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: Roarmeister]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4987
Loc: SOCAL
In those areas that feel a need to "draw a line somewhere", I'd like to see a more objective standard than the strength and skill of an officer of the law, and his ability to flick open a knife. Blade length and design of a knife could be objective standards. A knife the design of which allows it to lock open would be an objective standard. The flicking open of a knife is not inherent in the knife so much as the wielder of the knife. Rather than rewrite the law to make a valid objective standard, it seems they are using subjective standards to make just about any knife fall under the purview of a knife law that is already on the books.

I never visit and have no intention of ever visiting NYC; laws like this tell me that I am not welcome there. The people of NYC have the government and laws that they deserve.

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#281914 - 08/30/16 02:56 PM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: chaosmagnet]
chaosmagnet Online   content
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3010
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
Note: let's not discuss our opinions or feelings regarding these laws, I just want to know what the law actually is.

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#281916 - 08/30/16 03:14 PM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: chaosmagnet]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2029
Loc: Colorado
I wonder, are fixed blade knives a problem in NY too? They're kind of the culmination of "fast opening and locking". They're always open and locked.

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#281917 - 08/30/16 03:57 PM Re: NYC Knife Law Question [Re: chaosmagnet]
chaosmagnet Online   content
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3010
Loc: USA
I'm not a lawyer, this is what I looked up. Apparently carrying a "dirk, dagger or stiletto" carries with it the rebuttable presumption that one intended to use it unlawfully against a person. I haven't found definitions of "dirk, dagger or stiletto" that are sufficiently clear to me to indicate that any fixed knife I own isn't one of those under NYC law. I suspect that I could win in court if I were ticketed or arrested for carrying a small fixie, but I sure as heck don't want to find out.

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