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#281270 - 07/08/16 04:03 PM Zombies
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2946
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
We use zombie as a metaphor; for this thread I want to zero in on something more specific: riots. Before I continue I ask we stay away from politics and things of that nature.

Currently I'm in a small town where the greatest threats to my safety are bears and Florida drivers. What if things get worse? I'm in a gated community so that stacks the odds in my favor. I need to go beyond the gates sometimes.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#281274 - 07/08/16 04:41 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Best thing to do for a riot is to be nowhere near it.

The second best thing to do is to see a large crowd, sense the potential for unpleasantness, and depart without delay. I strongly encourage everyone to avoid protests of any variety.

If I found myself in a riot that I could not escape, I would try to find a place of cover and concealment, staying out of sight and out of mind as much as possible until it was over or an opportunity to escape presented itself.


Edited by chaosmagnet (07/08/16 08:53 PM)
Edit Reason: fix important missing word

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#281280 - 07/09/16 01:28 AM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2946
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
And what if the riots lead to a burning of a city and martial law being declared? Though martial law has never been declared, riots leading to the burning of a city have.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#281281 - 07/09/16 06:24 AM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Networking is important. In civil unrest you want to stay away from the masses/gatherings, but it's good to have a support network. Be prepared with stuff that you need (eg food, water, medicine, etc) but do it quietly. Don't advertise. If your locality permits it and you're so inclined, look into purchasing a firearm or two and learn how to use it.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#281282 - 07/09/16 09:23 AM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
What do you guys think of this:

http://www.totalsurvivalist.com/2010/03/how-to-not-get-killed-in-riot.html

I don't prep for riots, and I've never been near one. So I don't know much about it.

Now, I have lived under martial law. Not good, but totally possible to survive. Have a stock of the necessities. Don't do anything that might get you shot by the military/police.

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#281283 - 07/09/16 12:04 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Bingley]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 474
Loc: Somerset UK
I have never been actually involved in a riot, but I have travelled through a riot and been subjected to several nights and a couple of days of rioting very near to my then home in London.

These events were a major factor in my decision to leave London.

As others have posted, it is not easy to prep for a riot since the exact location, and the degree of danger are unknown and liable to frequent change.

The best prep is to be someplace else, either by "bugging out" or if in a high risk location, by permanently relocating.
Many riots start when a meeting or march or rally turns violent. I urge avoiding ANY large meeting, march or rally with political or campaigning connections.
My political involvement is limited to voting, And perhaps attending indoor, small local meetings of causes that I support. I would NEVER attend or knowingly go near ANY large rally or march, political, campaigning or otherwise.

At times of tension, I would urge remaining inconspicuous by wearing dull coloured clothing that blends in with the surroundings. Avoid bright colours that might be connected with one side or the other. Avoid anything expensive that might make you a target.
Wear comfortable shoes in order that you can run or walk well, but nothing expensive, unusual or attention attracting.
Don't wear jewellery or carry expensive portable electronics.
Try to be the "person that nobody remembered"
A firearm is of limited use against a mob, but may as well be carried if you lawfully can.

BTW, shall I post a youtube link about the riots to which I refer ? or is discussing any particular riot getting too close to p0litics ?

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#281284 - 07/09/16 01:23 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

As with most every other threat, be prepared to shelter-in for awhile. A week should be sufficient with even the worst U.S. rioting. As others have stated, stay away from demonstrations on issues that are particularly volatile. I've been in and around a lot of protests/demonstrations/marches in Washington, D.C. over the past thirty years -- the tenor of each gathering varies depending on the cause.

Riots in the U.S. typically have been highly localized within cities. There have been fires associated with riots -- such as the civil rights uprisings of the 1960s in Washington, New York, Baltimore. But those don't become city-consuming conflagrations 'ala Dresden or otherwise necessitate mass evacuation.

I live two blocks from a street that was heavily damaged in 1960s-era rioting. The primary casualty of the riot were the value of the properties damaged and the businesses who had been leasing those spaces.

Neighbors who lived here in the 1960s recounted that era when America's cities (including DC where I live) were on edge after the Rodney King verdict in 1992 -- at which time there were several days of rioting in Los Angeles. They said they stayed indoors and that they could see and smell the tear gas. While the one street was heavily damaged (flames were visible from the U.S. Capitol steps a mile away), the homes on the adjacent blocks were undamaged. I recall that there was also concern about possibile riots if O.J. Simpson had been convicted in 1995. But he was not so those concerns were unrealized.

The Los Angeles riots of 1992 are worth studying.

http://timelines.latimes.com/los-angeles-riots/


Here's a listing of riots and other significant civil disturbances in U.S. history. Quite a long list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States





.

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#281285 - 07/09/16 01:37 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
I spend a lot of time in major cities, even though I don't live in one. I have some rules that I follow that aren't riot-specific but might help quite a bit.

  • I always have a car. If I didn't drive to my destination I always rent one.
  • I never park a car with less than half a tank of gas, and I invariably fill up at 1/4 tank or sooner.
  • I do not valet park any vehicle. I know a number of people who were unable to get their car back when things went wrong with the valet service.
  • I always carry enough cash to get out of whatever parking garage the car is in -- I've seen people get stuck when the connection to the credit card processor was down several times. I actually carry a lot more cash than that.
  • I know the destination city's roads well enough to get out several different ways, without resorting to a smartphone or GPS. When traveling to a new city, or one where I haven't been there for a while, I study maps before departing. In the cities I spend the most time in, I have detailed knowledge of streets and neighborhoods.
  • At least a bottle or two of water and a few snacks are kept in the car or in my bag, even if just a one day rental.
  • I've made the effort to obtain concealed carry permits valid in as many states as I reasonably can, and I carry a pistol everywhere I may legally do so. Checking a bag with a pistol is a pain when flying but I do it anyway. I've chosen to be a lifelong student of the pistol; I recognize that this is not for everyone.
  • Even my minimalist TSA-safe emergency kit is way, way better than nothing, and it's always with me when traveling.


Given recent events I'm making the effort to carry more ammo on my person and I'm planning to work harder to be aware of large gatherings.


Edited by chaosmagnet (07/09/16 05:10 PM)
Edit Reason: grammar

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#281286 - 07/09/16 02:47 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Information is the most valuable resource. Know what is going on and where, so you can avoid or react in the appropriate manner. Stay away from incidents, riots are usually localized to specific areas, usually.

If the situation is prolonged or widespread, know where to go to get away. What direction is best? How will you get there? A bit of analysis before it happens is useful. What resources do you have, what resources will you need?

Stay oriented to your location, have a map, and know where important resources are located (pharmacies, hospitals, law enforcement locations, water, shelter, food, the usual stuff). Know the primary landmarks and how they can guide you to where you need to go.

If you are with others, establish rally points where you can gather if you become separated. These should be easily recognized, easy to access, and in the cardinal directions so you can default to whichever one is away from trouble. Staying out of danger becomes your first survival priority.

As Chaosmagnet discusses, being prepared is the key. Have the knowledge and supplies/equipment you need before it happens. If you wait until after a bad situation begins, it becomes exponentially more difficult.

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#281289 - 07/10/16 06:36 AM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Treat riots similar to brushfires. By the time it's a couple miles away, you need to have the car packed, a BOL decided on, and be ready to bolt at a moments notice. The rent a cop at the complex gate isn't going to be worth much against a mob.

Stay away from rallies, protests, and other potential flash points. That means both the planned ones, and ones that seem to form on their own. Keep an eye on the news as well for possible trigger events. [redacted]

My decision to step in here wasn't easy to make. Let me be clear that I do not believe that the poster intended to give offense to any group, but I think the specific trigger event that was suggested has too much potential to be inflammatory. Let's avoid discussion of what could be a trigger for a riot on ETS.

chaosmagnet


Edited by chaosmagnet (07/10/16 02:37 PM)
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#281294 - 07/10/16 09:27 PM Re: Zombies [Re: chaosmagnet]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
... do is to see a large crowd, sense the potential for unpleasantness, and depart without delay. I strongly encourage everyone to avoid protests of any variety.

...


Patrick Van Horne writes extensively about reading people and crowds in Left of Bang. He calls it Combat Profiling, as opposed to reading body language in an interview.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#281295 - 07/10/16 10:10 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Mark_R]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
Patrick Van Horne writes extensively about reading people and crowds in Left of Bang. He calls it Combat Profiling, as opposed to reading body language in an interview.


This book has been on my list to read for some time, I think I will bump it nearer to the top of the stack.

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#281298 - 07/11/16 12:01 AM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Do we have a recommended reading list for conflict-oriented stuff? I got Rory Miller's Conflict Communication from this forum. What are some other works that you like?

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#281302 - 07/11/16 06:17 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Having read Rory's and Patrick's books, and having some experience at such things, I highly recommend them both. Rory has multiple books, but "Facing Violence" and "Conflict Communications" are the most applicable for this.

There are many books on the subject, and most are so basic and incomplete that they are not useful. One other I do recommend is Pat McNamara's "Sentinel". It talks a lot about being prepared as well as reacting. (disclaimer: I have known McNamara personally for about 30 years and consider him a friend. However, my recommendation is an objective one).

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#281334 - 07/12/16 11:42 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Not really a conflict book, But Amanda Ripley's "Unthinkable" focuses on people's actions during crises. Why some freeze, panic, run, or rise to the occasion.

I have yet to read them, but Dave Grossman's "On Combat" and "On Killing" examine the psychological costs and coping mechanisms of conflict.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#281335 - 07/13/16 01:19 AM Re: Zombies [Re: chaosmagnet]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
If you can't stay out of places where riots are more likely, or if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when you would otherwise normally be far from harm,

"Chance favors the prepared mind"

"You rolls the dice, and you takes your chances"

"Speak softly, and carry a big stick"

"I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you"

"Everybody gotta die sometime, Red"

Just some philosophical quotes to consider in such a situation.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#281376 - 07/18/16 10:40 AM Re: Zombies [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
MedB Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 108
Few things in this world frighten me more than the mob mentality. Mobs are unpredictable, indescriminate, cannot be reasoned with and potentially deadly in any number of ways...

Even if you appear to blend in, the simplest trigger like being jostled by the person next to you or being seen trying to exit the area might earn the stereotypical finger point and "here's one get `em" reaction. Just ask the truck driver in LA.

The sheer physical press of a stampeding mob can be even more deadly, even if originally peaceful. Just ask the families of the 96 at Hillsborough.

Even the response from law enforcement can turn deadly, even if not meant to be so. Beyond stray rounds or tanks rolling over protestors, law enforcement intervention also runs the risk of agitating or stampeding the mob (see above).


So I tell you unashamedly that few things frighten me more than a potential mob scene. We avoid black Friday mass shopping mobs, and have to think hard about certain live sporting events. Even in theaters we tend to locate exits and place ourselves near them just in case. We are not hermits by any means and fully engage with the world today. But we try to be hyper aware of potential mob scenes.

Best advice for riots/mobs...? Don't be there.


Edited by MedB (07/18/16 10:48 AM)
Edit Reason: Grammar
_________________________
MedB

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#281377 - 07/18/16 06:00 PM Re: Zombies [Re: MedB]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
That truck driver in Los Angeles did occur to me, but I was thinking more of the social media brouhaha that follows every major event. There always seem to be a number of innocent people drawn into the fray by reason of the clothes they were wearing, the attacker(s) perceived motivation, or a prominent twitter member making an unfortunate post.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#281378 - 07/18/16 11:54 PM Re: Zombies [Re: Mark_R]
WesleyH Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 101
Loc: Unknown
Reginald Denny. . .
_________________________
WesleyH

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