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#280895 - 05/31/16 03:45 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: quick_joey_small]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
That's a neat article, and mostly I agree heartily with what he says - with a couple of notable exceptions:

"Except in canyon country, walking downhill, especially in forests and mountains, will often get you out."

That depends upon local conditions. In the Santa Catalina Mts, adjacent to Tucson, following that advice is an easy way to prolong your adventure. In that range, paradoxically, you should walk uphill.of course, if you are following your path with a good map, as recommended, this will be obvious.

Another statement with which I disagree: "The last thing you want is a search and rescue mission to begin - that always puts other lives at risk."

My, oh my my -all those poor, suffering SAR folks continually laying their lives on the line! You hear this from time to time and it is simply not true The SAR groups I have encountered are experienced, and especially in their area of operatiions are quite familiar with the terrain and conditions. The riskiest part of the job is driving to base camp. There are exceptions, but they are relatively trivial.

Basically, really god advice, but I have to mention these exceptions....
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#280896 - 05/31/16 04:36 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
quick_joey_small Offline
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Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 571
Loc: UK

Thanks for the response hikermor. Why should one walk uphill in the Santa Catalina Mts? Is this the canyon country the article refers to?

Is this where going downhill gets you into a 'gravity trap'? (It's easy to go downhill thousands of feet to where you won't have the strength to get out of)


Russ wrote: > I've wondered whether a small helium balloon on a long tether could take a cellphone (with a text message ready to Send) up to a point where cell coverage was available..

How feasible is that? Could an ariel be extended high enough? Or would the balloon itself, if you can get it above the trees be a good signal? And would actually making the call do you any good. After all her husband knew she was in trouble without the texts. If you don't know where you are, you can't text them your location.

I wonder if a tape that could be stretched out on the trees would be a good idea. Rescuers then would only have to come across something hundreds of yards wide (with a message printed on it saying 'I am this way >', instead of the one square foot you are stood on. Does such a tape exist?
qjs

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#280897 - 05/31/16 05:03 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: quick_joey_small]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
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Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 589
Loc: ventura county, ca
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small

I wonder if a tape that could be stretched out on the trees would be a good idea. Rescuers then would only have to come across something hundreds of yards wide (with a message printed on it saying 'I am this way >', instead of the one square foot you are stood on. Does such a tape exist?
qjs


biodegradable forestry flagging tape here: flagging

and prior to use, one could use a marker pen to write on the tape a name, date or.....
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#280898 - 05/31/16 05:16 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The Catalinaas are deceptive. This is a mountain rangerising more than a mile aboe the surrounding lowland. The upper section, sporting a pine forest, while hilly, is fairly easy walking country, as is the lower portion, where the gradient eases as canyons and streams approach their base level. In the section in between, the canyons feature very steep cliffs and significant waterfalls. People, especially if they are unfamiliar with the terrain, can take days to work their way down canyon and they are exposed to significant risk is doing so.

In searching these canyons, SAR has learned to stay on the ridges and check places where the unwary are likely to hang up. If you know the territory, you can easily descend in a day.

This desert country is utterly unlike anything I have seen in the British Isles. The Catalinas are not unique, but they are close to a large population center and therefore snare many newbies.

I deal with funky cellphone reception routinely when on the (California) Channel Islands. The trick is to keep trying, shifting your location. Sometimes moving just a few feet will make a difference. Rather than bothering with a helium balloon, it would be just as easy to pack a PLB
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#280900 - 05/31/16 07:26 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Yep, a PLB is much easier and that signal goes out to a professional organization that get your location to the appropriate folks quickly. It won't go to someone (like me) who doesn't always read their texts until sometime later.

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#280901 - 05/31/16 11:23 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: Russ]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Russ
I've wondered whether a small helium balloon on a long tether could take a cellphone (with a text message ready to Send) up to a point where cell coverage was available... Keeping a Spot or PLB in your pack would probably be easier.


It would depend on the local terrain and the cell phone protocol (CDMA vs GSM). Per the Wikipedia article on cell sites, the effective line-of-site range can drop down to 3 miles in the mountains.

Originally Posted By: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_site#Range
The maximum range of a mast (where it is not limited by interference with other masts nearby) depends on the same circumstances. Some technologies, such as GSM, normally have a fixed maximum range of 35 kilometres (22 mi), which is imposed by technical limitations. CDMA and IDEN have no built-in limit, but the limiting factor is the ability of a low-powered personal cell phone to transmit back to the mast. As a rough guide, based on a tall mast and flat terrain, it is possible to get between 50 to 70 km (30–45 miles). When the terrain is hilly, the maximum distance can vary from as little as 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) to 8 kilometres (5.0 mi) due to encroachment of intermediate objects into the wide center fresnel zone of the signal


About the only thing I can see reliably working is satellite (SPOT, PLB), and MAYBE one of the more powerful handy talkies.
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#280902 - 05/31/16 11:37 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: Mark_R]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Mark, wouldn't your cell phone range be increased in the mountains - if you are on a high point and line of sight to the tower?
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#280903 - 06/01/16 01:14 AM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2197
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#280905 - 06/01/16 04:16 AM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
I read that a little earlier today. Sounds like maybe she did have a whistle, etc. While she made some errors we really do have to acknowledge that sometimes you do most of the right things and still have a negative outcome.
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#280907 - 06/01/16 07:19 AM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
In the area of the Appalachian Trail in Maine where this occurred, what would happen if you picked a compass bearing, any random bearing, and followed it? How long could you expect to hike cross-country before running into some form of civilization - a road, a dwelling, a major trail, a recreational area, etc.

I'm not saying following a random bearing is the best course of action. I don't know what the terrain is in Maine - could one even follow a compass bearing through the landscape up there? But if your plan is to hike out, you should probably follow a natural feature (river, etc.) or lacking that, a steady compass bearing. I'm just wondering how wilderness-y is the wilderness in that area. 5 miles? 20 miles? 50 miles?

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