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#278882 - 01/20/16 04:40 PM Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt...
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
http://abc7.com/entertainment/jamie-foxx-rescues-trapped-driver-from-fiery-wreck/1165185/

It sounds like Jamie Foxx was using scissors he got from somebody else. If those scissors had not been there, we would have had a much different outcome.
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#278884 - 01/21/16 12:11 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: ireckon
http://abc7.com/entertainment/jamie-foxx-rescues-trapped-driver-from-fiery-wreck/1165185/

It sounds like Jamie Foxx was using scissors he got from somebody else. If those scissors had not been there, we would have had a much different outcome.


EMT snips worked fine and I think are even better for cutting webbing off someone. We use them for high rope work instead of knives as you are less likely to cut the wrong thing.

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#278886 - 01/21/16 06:51 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
Very true! Having a useful tool can be the difference between life and death. I recall a couple years ago a man was hanged to death in England during a theater production. He was doing a scene where the character was being hung IIRC and he got caught in the ropes for real. People ran around frantically trying to find a knife but no one could produce one in time and he died.

I've always got a knife on me if I'm wearing pants. But this article reminds me that I need to purchase another rescue tool. I used to have a Houdini tool; it had a light, glass breaker and seatbelt cutter all in one. I transferred it from vehicle to vehicle for years, keeping it on a paracord around the steering column, but when I traded in my truck on my new car I forgot to grab it! mad
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#278888 - 01/21/16 07:29 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
Tom_L Offline
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Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
That's why I carry a sharp folding knife on me at all times wherever (legally) possible. I have been involved in several rescue situations where I needed to cut webbing or ropes quickly. For many years now my primary EDC has been a Spyderco Endura with the Wave feature. I really like the Wave because it lets me deploy the knife pretty much instantly and doesn't require any fine motor skills. Of course, keeping the blade hair-popping sharp helps, too. It cuts webbing like a demon. A serrated blade might be even better, but less versatile for other purposes.

I have several other seatbelt cutters and rescue tools but for some reason I find them less practical and less efficient in terms of sheer cutting performance.

Now I'm thinking EMT shears might be a really good idea in places where carrying a knife is prohibited. I don't really have a whole lot of good hands-on experience with EMT shears, though. The ones I've handled were mostly low quality, cheap imports, more or less disposable stuff that wouldn't handle tougher jobs very well. Does anyone have any good recommendations? I noticed Leatherman has come up with new EMT shears, too. A bit pricy IIRC, but seemed pretty sturdy and well thought-out.

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#278890 - 01/21/16 12:32 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tom_L]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
A while back I picked up a Gaffers bag from CountyComm and a hook & loop attachment that allows me to keep EMT shears on the outside of the bag. FAK & trauma kit in the bag with other good things and a sharp on the outside where it can be reached quickly. The bag sits behind the seat in my truck. FWIW

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#278895 - 01/21/16 02:23 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
For self-rescue, a seatbelt cutter should in my mind be mounted in a readily accessible location in the car and not in a bag/glovebox/trunk.

One of our partner company's has a training device: a car mounted in a special rig, which allows them to turn the car upside down (or any other angle) and use it to train people to get out of it. I had the opportunity to play with it. It's quite confusing when you are hanging upside down, and since you are hanging upside down in the seatbelt, things in your pockets and belt become very hard to access. Leaning over to the glovebox; forget about it. Bag stored somewhere in the car, during a flip things start becoming flying projectiles.

Don’t under estimate the how disorientating flipping inside a vehicle is. I have also been trained twice in a helicopter crash simulator. After a 540 degree turn underwater, I keep getting out and on the surface and see the other side of the pool than I think I came out of…

A good self rescue tool should be accessible in any possible position, while remaining in the seat. It should be securely mounted (use a tool with a proper mound, Velcro is not a proper mount), be big (easier to grab, especially when you are a bit shaky) and bright (even in daylight, you get a lot less light in the car if it’s upside down). I like V shaped seatbelt cutters, because it’s much harder to accidently cut yourself. My best experience is cutting at a 45 degree angle, in a slow but steady motion, while keeping the belt tight.

I personally have a spring loaded rescue tool with seatbelt cutter mounted on my door (lifehammer evolution), one old fashion hammer with cutter on the center console (lifehammer classic, as delivered by the car dealership) and a reqme on my car keys.

(as for glass, a centre punch/spring-loaded window punch will work under water while a regular hammer type might not work under water due to the water resistance and your ability to swing it)
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#278897 - 01/21/16 02:36 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Very true, the bag behind the seat isn't for me. My seatbelt cutter is in a closed console attached to my seat; it will still be there after a crash/rollover. I've also been through the helo dunker, multiple times, excellent training.

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#278905 - 01/21/16 05:23 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
I have a bright yellow ResqMe seatbelt cutter/window punch on a loop of stretch cord around the turn indicator lever. It is snug and isn't going anywhere, even in a rollover or major collision. In addition, there's a Leatherman in the glovebox, a folder clipped to my pocket (usually) and a little SAK on my keyring, so I think I'm covered.

Over 3+ decades in the business, I've seen a few seatbelt buckles that were jammed closed, and more, since they are toward the center of the car, that were inaccessible due to either wreckage or other things, typically the patient's body, being in the way.

One of the main reasons for a seatbelt cutter, IMO, is to be able to exit the car as quickly as possible if it's still in the roadway, before another vehicle comes barreling along and slams into the wreck.

BTW, if a car was in a significant wreck but is being repaired for some reason instead of junked, any seatbelts that were in use at that time are done and must be replaced, even if they look undamaged. So be sure to include that in your insurance claim.

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#278906 - 01/21/16 05:37 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: JeffMc]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: JeffMc

BTW, if a car was in a significant wreck but is being repaired for some reason instead of junked, any seatbelts that were in use at that time are done and must be replaced, even if they look undamaged. So be sure to include that in your insurance claim.


Most modern cars are equipped with seatbelt tentioners (explosive that pulls the seatbelt tight). Only usable once.

A warning on the ResQme, occasionaly check the spring. I have had one were the spring got loose and the windows punch became useless. You could hear the spring rattle inside when you shake it.
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#278907 - 01/21/16 05:41 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands
" I don't really have a whole lot of good hands-on experience with EMT shears, though. The ones I've handled were mostly low quality, cheap imports, more or less disposable stuff that wouldn't handle tougher jobs very well."

I just used my cheap import ones this morning trimming 16 gauge sheet metal to repair a front porch light enclosure. Tin snips weren't doing the job as the metal was a bit too thin for close to the edge trimming. Even cheap EMT snips cut through seat belt and climbing rope just fine. I keep some in each car along with my first aid kit, cpr barrier, vise grips and heavy vinyl coated gloves, for auto accidents.

You do have to use scissors correctly. Practice with wobbly cheap kids or EMT snips till you can cut any thickness of material. It is a matter of pushing the blades against each other sideways as well as up and down. One can even cut seatbelt with tiny thread snips if one practices.

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#278908 - 01/21/16 06:13 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: clearwater]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: clearwater
You do have to use scissors correctly. Practice with wobbly cheap kids or EMT snips till you can cut any thickness of material. It is a matter of pushing the blades against each other sideways as well as up and down. One can even cut seatbelt with tiny thread snips if one practices.


It's an intriguing possibility. I'm something of a handyman and tend to keep a good (my better half would say huge smile ) selection of tools around the house, some fairly common and some quite exotic. So generally speaking, I know what I can expect from a given tool. But somehow I've always felt let down by those EMT shears. My practical experience seems to be very much in line with this test on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJoF3lDm9cQ

Maybe it's a matter of using inferior EMT shears. Maybe, as you say, it has something to do with my technique. But... I have at least a dozen different shears, cutters etc. for sheet metal, a toolbox full of leatherworking tools etc. I can do good work with each particular tool - apart from those darned EMT shears. smile

Does anyone have any especially good experience with a particular brand of EMT shears that seem to be a cut (pun intended!) above the rest?

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#278909 - 01/21/16 06:21 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: clearwater]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
My rescue knife is a Spyderco Assist I Squeeze the blade tighter while closed and the carbide glass breaker protrudes from the handle, otherwise it's parked out of the way. My Benchmade Triage OTOH has a glass breaker that is always exposed, sometimes that's not so good. The Spyderco Assist is in my console, Benchmade Triage is in the bag.

No affiliation with Knifecenter, it's just a convenient link.

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#278911 - 01/21/16 06:41 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
Tom_L Offline
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Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Also, talking about seatbelt cutters and rescue tools... There are clearly many different options available. Webbing can be cut efficiently with a sharp knife, scissors, shears, specialized seatbelt cutters - but some may work better than others in a specific scenario.

Rescuing somebody else trapped in a vehicle for instance is not the same as attempting to do a self-rescue if you happen to be the victim yourself. IME a sturdy fixed blade knife makes a very good egress tool in a pinch. Some models like the Gerber LMF II have specific features that make them particularly effective for that sort of work. The Glock field knife and many other blades of the "sharpened prybar" variety work well, too. Robust enough to force open a car door if needed, and the point (or a glass breaker pommel if available) can be used to break a windshield. Plus there's always the sharp edge for cutting webbing and such.

A self-rescue scenario on the other hand is a different matter. You might get knocked unconscious or hurt pretty badly. People react differently to that sort of thing so it's good knowing (through training or previous experience) how you react under real stress. I use my EDC folding knife so often that it's really become an extension of my arm. I also keep a seatbelt cutter in the car, but honestly speaking I've not deployed it very often for any real purpose and I don't find it all that intuitive to use. It might be safer to use than a knife, but I'm not absolutely sure how well it would work for me under stress when seconds count.

Either way, some types of seatbelt cutters don't seem too practical if you have to use them one-handed. This could be a concern if one of your hands is injured or trapped somehow. In any case, getting caught in a bad vehicle crash is going to be a cr@pshoot. If the adrenaline kicks in quickly enough it might help initially to supress the pain and give you a momentary boost, unfortunately at the cost of fine motor skills. So little things like opening a folding safety cutter blade could become a problem.

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#278912 - 01/21/16 07:19 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tom_L]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Quote:
The Glock field knife and many other blades of the "sharpened prybar" variety work well, too. Robust enough to force open a car door if needed, and the point (or a glass breaker pommel if available) can be used to break a windshield. Plus there's always the sharp edge for cutting webbing and such.


Have you tried? Because I found carsdoors to be pretty stubborn. Steel doors (any, not just cars) tend to bent, not break. Atleast the steel sheet metal. The internal (ultra)(very)high strenght steel beams on the other hand. Well good luck bending that with any manual tool. Also a knife point does not equal a good glass tool.

Properly mounted self rescue tools can be used to save other, but folding knife in your front pockets or belt is absolute useless while strapped in.

Personnally I think those 'rescue knifes' from known knife companys are gimmicks. Not glove friendly, too light to really break glass easily to much folding stuff. Most commenly used style rescue tools used by proffesionals (well in my country) look like this:



Not very practical to mount as a self rescue tool, but for those situations a solid big handled tools is still a must.

Quote:
I use my EDC folding knife so often that it's really become an extension of my arm.


Adrenaline is good for raw strenght, but not for precision. A adrenaline shot combined with confusion and high stress can really ruin the ability do precision work. Muscle memory help to a extend...
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#278916 - 01/21/16 09:16 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: Tjin
Properly mounted self rescue tools can be used to save other, but folding knife in your front pockets or belt is absolute useless while strapped in.


Now that you mention it - a few years ago I was involved in a fairly serious car crash, rammed from behind by another vehicle at high speed. I suffered a minor neck injury, sprained shoulder and some bruising. I was able to deploy my folding knife clipped to my front cargo pocket without any difficulty. It was completely instinctive on my part, I did it without really thinking about it. Just as I was about to cut the seatbelt though I figured I ought to give the buckle another try and managed to disengage it just fine. So no cutting was required that day. smile

You're absolutely right that specialized heavy duty tools are much more effective for rescue applications, but unfortunately they're seldom available when needed. A simpler tool such as a large screwdriver, fixed blade knife etc. can come in handy in that kind of situation if no better alternative is at hand. Not necessarily the most professional or efficient way to do it, but it just might work. I have (ab)used the Glock knife for a similar application with some success in a couple of occasions - thankfully never in a real life or death situation. I also used an entreching tool once to pry open a jammed door. It wasn't pretty but it did the trick luckily. The Gerber LMF II has been quite popular in some branches of the military lately for the same purpose. I'm sure a proper crowbar or rescue tool would work much better still if you can get hold of one in time.

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#278917 - 01/21/16 09:16 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
My tool for this situation is a Z Rex http://www.leatherman.com/z-rex-32.html . Got it primarily to free others from entrapment, and it is now kept in a latched compartment close at hand to the driver. This informative discussion will get me back to the drawing board for a bit of fine tuning....
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#278919 - 01/21/16 09:41 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tom_L]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: Tom_L

I was able to deploy my folding knife clipped to my front cargo pocket without any difficulty.


I actually mentioned front pockets and the belt on purpose. Cargo pockets seems to stay pretty accessible. (having bulky items in cargo pocket can cause other issues during a side impact) Do not forget gravity, when being upside down. Instinct can be a issue when you are upside down.

Originally Posted By: Tom_L
[A simpler tool such as a large screwdriver, fixed blade knife etc. can come in handy in that kind of situation if no better alternative is at hand. Not necessarily the most professional or efficient way to do it, but it just might work. I have (ab)used the Glock knife for a similar application with some success in a couple of occasions - thankfully never in a real life or death situation. I even used an entreching tool once to pry open a jammed door. It wasn't pretty but it did the trick luckily. The Gerber LMF II has been quite popular in some branches of the military lately for the same purpose. I'm sure a proper crowbar or rescue tool would work much better still if you can get hold of one in time.


Note, that since the middle of the 90´s safety has jumped up significantly. The passenger compartments are made much much stronger. Intrusion inside the passenger compartment has significantly been reduced. Car doors are far less likely to get stuck, due to the frame around it being bend far less. (sometimes it not actually stuck, just locked. But some car manufacture also auto unlock feature when the airbags deploy)

The introduction of every stronger steels, mean certain thing won’t bent. Which is good during a crash and something to consider when a car needs to be cut by fire and rescue. Since steel doesn’t bent as easily, relief cuts are more important. Pushing parts apart may not require stabilisation on the pushed parts, due to the strength. Also cutting tools have become much more powerful to deal with these stronger steels.

Most modern fire departments also have a data terminal on their vehicles, so they can look up the properties of cars. Airbags, seatbelt tensioners, high voltage cabling (electric and hybrids), battery locations, type of steels used in certain parts need to be taken in to account before they can start cutting.

This also mean that simple tools in the past, no longer work properly or at all. With increased safety in cars, you will also need to specialise the rescue tools required for them.

For consumers current new things to consider are:
- A lot more laminated glass is currently used on new vehicles on side windows and panoramic roofs. This makes windows punches pretty useless.
- Due to the high amount of airbags; make sure nothing is between them and you. Having front, side, window and knee airbags really limits the amount the locations you can store things, including locations where rescue tools can be mounted.
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#278936 - 01/22/16 08:39 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Tjin
For self-rescue, a seatbelt cutter should in my mind be mounted in a readily accessible location in the car and not in a bag/glovebox/trunk.
------snip------------------
Don’t under estimate the how disorientating flipping inside a vehicle is.
----------------snip-----------
A good self rescue tool should be accessible in any possible position, while remaining in the seat.

Having some means to cut seat belts makes sense for rescuing others. However, I don't think there is often much need for a tool in self rescue. In the vast majority of cases, the best self rescue tool is going to be your hand, simply reaching the buckle and releasing it in the usual manner. Because we buckle and unbuckle our seat belts many times each day, this is well ingrained in muscle memory, and generally works even when disoriented after a crash. And many people remain surprisingly calm after a wreck.

The experience of a women I know well illustrates this. She left the house for work a few minutes ahead of her husband. She slid off the road on an icy spot and rolled the car upside down. Her first reaction (while hanging upside down in her seat belt) was to calmly pull out her cell phone and call her husband to tell him she was OK. He would be driving the same road a few minutes after her and she didn't want him to freak out when he saw her car wrecked by the road. She then unbuckled the seat belt and crawled out the side window, which had shattered in the crash. The woman in question was about 60 years old, reasonably fit for a woman that age, but by no means an exceptional athlete.

For rescue personel (firemen or police), a rescue tool makes perfect sense. They will be outside the car, trying to extract the person. Simply cutting the belt will work much easier than trying to reach across them to the buckle. It also makes sense for us to carry a knife or rescue tool in case we are involved in an impromptu rescue of others.


Edited by AKSAR (01/22/16 08:41 PM)
Edit Reason: typo
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#278937 - 01/22/16 09:07 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: AKSAR]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: Tjin
For self-rescue, a seatbelt cutter should in my mind be mounted in a readily accessible location in the car and not in a bag/glovebox/trunk.
------snip------------------
Don’t under estimate the how disorientating flipping inside a vehicle is.
----------------snip-----------
A good self rescue tool should be accessible in any possible position, while remaining in the seat.

Having some means to cut seat belts makes sense for rescuing others. However, I don't think there is often much need for a tool in self rescue. In the vast majority of cases, the best self rescue tool is going to be your hand, simply reaching the buckle and releasing it in the usual manner. Because we buckle and unbuckle our seat belts many times each day, this is well ingrained in muscle memory, and generally works even when disoriented after a crash. And many people remain surprisingly calm after a wreck.

The experience of a women I know well illustrates this. She left the house for work a few minutes ahead of her husband. She slid off the road on an icy spot and rolled the car upside down. Her first reaction (while hanging upside down in her seat belt) was to calmly pull out her cell phone and call her husband to tell him she was OK. He would be driving the same road a few minutes after her and she didn't want him to freak out when he saw her car wrecked by the road. She then unbuckled the seat belt and crawled out the side window, which had shattered in the crash. The woman in question was about 60 years old, reasonably fit for a woman that age, but by no means an exceptional athlete.

For rescue personel (firemen or police), a rescue tool makes perfect sense. They will be outside the car, trying to extract the person. Simply cutting the belt will work much easier than trying to reach across them to the buckle. It also makes sense for us to carry a knife or rescue tool in case we are involved in an impromptu rescue of others.


Well actually my main reason to have rescue tool handy is the glass tool. I'm in a country with a lot of water... Seatbelt cutters are just on the same tool.
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#278938 - 01/22/16 09:41 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Tjin
Well actually my main reason to have rescue tool handy is the glass tool. I'm in a country with a lot of water... Seatbelt cutters are just on the same tool.
Good point! I forgot to mention that. Carrying a window breaking tool makes good sense.

I also found your comments on how newer cars require different rescue methods interesting. I was reading an article awhile back that made similar points about airport fire/rescue teams. Newer designs and materials have made air crashes more survivable, but also require different methods for fire/rescue teams to put out the fires and get people out.
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#278939 - 01/22/16 10:34 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
quoting AKSAR: "Having some means to cut seat belts makes sense for rescuing others. However, I don't think there is often much need for a tool in self rescue. In the vast majority of cases, the best self rescue tool is going to be your hand, simply reaching the buckle and releasing it in the usual manner. "

War story time: Many years ago, I was riding in the passenger seat of a cargo van when it did a 3/4 roll. I wound up hanging on my side from the seat belt (at that moment I really became a believer in seat belt use).. Unbuckling was automatic and easily accomplished.

I would sy my mental faculties were clouded. My first thought was to take pictures for the insurance company.


Edited by hikermor (01/23/16 01:06 AM)
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#278942 - 01/22/16 11:26 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: AKSAR]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: AKSAR

I also found your comments on how newer cars require different rescue methods interesting. I was reading an article awhile back that made similar points about airport fire/rescue teams. Newer designs and materials have made air crashes more survivable, but also require different methods for fire/rescue teams to put out the fires and get people out.


The rapid changes in new car design really effect the rescue training and equipment. Keeping up to date with the latest development and equipment is increasinly more important, but expensive and challenging. More training time and being able to practise on new vehicles is hard. (you generally get trained with junkyard cars, which are generally older and do not have all the modern safety features).

I do think safety features on cars are good. In most countries traffic is one of the highest causes of death after health related issues. I have always checked the crash rating before buying a car and bought the one of the safest ones I could find in my segment and i can afford.

As for releasing your self out of a seatbelt in weird positions. Regardsless of which methode you use to release the seatbelt. Just releasing the seatbelt while being in a weird position can mean you fall on your head and cause (more) injury.

The taught methode for releasing your self while being up side down is:
- Raise both legs and place them on the dash.
- Use the legs to push your body in to your seat. Push hard enough so, you are able to support your body weight in that position.
- One arm raised to support you body when you come down.
- Release seatbelt and roll away.
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#278943 - 01/22/16 11:26 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
I have a heavy serrated folder with the glass breaker tip protruding from the handle's end always at hand in the car, clipped to the DIY cutout in the side of the belt's well (along the car's side beam) and also attached to it with a short lanyard. That piece of the frame seems to have an equal chance of surviving in the crash as myself. I don't like the slot like mini cutters, as for example, under the water your vision will be quite inadequate for using it on the belt, especially under the stress. A knife like tool is the way to go here, IMO, as you have much more experience using such a tool.

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#278944 - 01/22/16 11:39 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Tjin
... A warning on the ResQme, occasionaly check the spring. I have had one were the spring got loose and the windows punch became useless. You could hear the spring rattle inside when you shake it.


Thanks for that good tip. I just checked mine, and it's still working properly.

Earlier, I found that one of the rescue tools I carry in my trunk (Channel Lock 89) had gotten wet and heavily rusted. It was quite a job to strip off all the rust, sharpen and restore tool!

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#278947 - 01/23/16 12:00 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: JeffMc]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
How much of a swing does it take to break a side-window of a car? Are the carbide glass breakers on knives useful if you are inside the vehicle or are they more for a responder on the outside? Just thinking that I may add a ResQme to the available equipment; as I understand it does not require room to swing as do other tools. Is that correct?

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#278951 - 01/23/16 12:34 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Russ]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Russ
How much of a swing does it take to break a side-window of a car? Are the carbide glass breakers on knives useful if you are inside the vehicle or are they more for a responder on the outside? Just thinking that I may add a ResQme to the available equipment; as I understand it does not require room to swing as do other tools. Is that correct?


IMO, the spring loaded center punch is the tool of choice for automotive window breaking. It works on either the inside or outside of the side window, but not the windshield. Here's a short video demo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5f7pZX61Bo

But, if you can, wear gloves and eye protection, or expect a few nicks and cuts, since it is basically impossible to prevent your hand from continuing through the hole you just made. You can easily pick out the remaining broken glass if necessary.

A pointed impact tool, like carbide tipped whatever, takes a surprising amount of force to break side window glass, and it can also rebound off the glass nastily. For self-rescue from the inside, I suggest a spring loaded center punch, so I concur with your choice of a ResQme or something similar. I like the ResQme in particular because it combines a punch with a seatbelt cutter, the blade is entirely covered by the attachment clip, and it's light, compact and small enough to fit on a key ring, although mine is mounted to a little loop of shock cord around the turn signal stalk.

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#278952 - 01/23/16 12:53 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: JeffMc]
Russ Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Okay, so pressing the tool into the window compresses the spring with trips and breaks the glass. I do have a pair of flight gloves (Nomex w/ leather palm) n the console for this but I time would need to be on my side. Most of what I carry is to act as a responder, not as a victim.
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#278961 - 01/23/16 12:35 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Alex]
Tjin Offline
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Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: Alex
I have a heavy serrated folder with the glass breaker tip protruding from the handle's end always at hand in the car, clipped to the DIY cutout in the side of the belt's well (along the car's side beam) and also attached to it with a short lanyard. That piece of the frame seems to have an equal chance of surviving in the crash as myself.


Don't know what you drive. Do make sure it will not interfere with the side and window airbags and the seatbelt pretensioner and loadlimiter (not sure what the belt well is). Also note. that the the side and windows airbags will cover the B-pilar (window airbags generally go fron the A to C pillar.) You will need to push those away. The window airbag is design to stay inflated much longer then the front airbag, as it has to protect you for longer during a roll over and i prevents bodyparts from sticking out during a roll over.

Originally Posted By: Russ
Okay, so pressing the tool into the window compresses the spring with trips and breaks the glass.


For succes at first try, swing a spring tool too. When I just put a ResQme on the glass and gently start pushing I need 2 - 3 tries. If just hold it in my hands and ram the glass with the punch, i have had instant succes.
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#278963 - 01/23/16 03:12 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tom_L]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Tom_L


A self-rescue scenario on the other hand is a different matter. You might get knocked unconscious or hurt pretty badly. People react differently to that sort of thing so it's good knowing (through training or previous experience) how you react under real stress.


This discussion so far seems to assume that getting out of the seat belt and the vehicle is the first priority and a good thing. This is not true if you "are hurt pretty badly." Hasty evacuation before stabilization of injuries, especially those to the spinal column, can turn routine trauma into a much worse situation.

Other than cases where the vehicle is on fire (and those are actually rare, despite what you see on TV), an ideal progression is assessment of the patient in situ, first aid/stabilization of potential injuries, and then release from the belt, which might be best done by cutting.

If I were to be on scene, I would almost automatically apply a cervical collar,just to be safe. Then I would extricate.
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#278971 - 01/23/16 06:51 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Originally Posted By: Tom_L

A self-rescue scenario on the other hand is a different matter. You might get knocked unconscious or hurt pretty badly. People react differently to that sort of thing so it's good knowing (through training or previous experience) how you react under real stress.
This discussion so far seems to assume that getting out of the seat belt and the vehicle is the first priority and a good thing. This is not true if you "are hurt pretty badly." Hasty evacuation before stabilization of injuries, especially those to the spinal column, can turn routine trauma into a much worse situation.

If you are in a wreck in a modern car with airbags and seat belt, and you get "hurt pretty badly", it likely means the car is severely crumpled. Getting free of the seat belt may be the least of your problems to get out of the car. You had better hope that the Fire Dept rescue guys and gals are on their way with the jaws of life and other assorted heavy rescue tools!
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#278982 - 01/23/16 11:09 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: hikermor]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Originally Posted By: Tom_L


A self-rescue scenario on the other hand is a different matter. You might get knocked unconscious or hurt pretty badly. People react differently to that sort of thing so it's good knowing (through training or previous experience) how you react under real stress.


This discussion so far seems to assume that getting out of the seat belt and the vehicle is the first priority and a good thing. This is not true if you "are hurt pretty badly." Hasty evacuation before stabilization of injuries, especially those to the spinal column, can turn routine trauma into a much worse situation.

Other than cases where the vehicle is on fire (and those are actually rare, despite what you see on TV), an ideal progression is assessment of the patient in situ, first aid/stabilization of potential injuries, and then release from the belt, which might be best done by cutting.

If I were to be on scene, I would almost automatically apply a cervical collar,just to be safe. Then I would extricate.


I agree. Smashing windows and cutting seatbelts should only be done if there is immediate danger (fire, water, etc). Otherwise let the proffesionals do it.
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#278983 - 01/24/16 03:39 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: hikermor]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: hikermor
... Other than cases where the vehicle is on fire (and those are actually rare, despite what you see on TV), an ideal progression is assessment of the patient in situ, first aid/stabilization of potential injuries, and then release from the belt, which might be best done by cutting. ...


Good point. If you are a non-professional first responding civilian at a collision scene, it's usually best to leave the patient where and as you find them, and leave the window breaking, extrication, etc. to the pros.

The exceptions are, in addition to imminent threat from an actual car fire, are if the patient's injuries demand immediate action to save life that cannot be performed in place, or there is a high risk to the occupants and rescuers from oncoming traffic, as with a wreck in the middle of a dark or foggy highway, behind a blind curve or hill, etc.

You might be surprised at how many secondary collisions into accident scenes or near misses I've seen, even with millions of candlepower of emergency lights flashing, cops waving down traffic, and everybody in reflective gear. Working a wreck on a busy highway or a dark, curvy rural road can be really frightening.

So the main reason for carrying seatbelt cutters and window breakers is SELF-extrication if necessary to escape additional danger, and only secondarily for those rare instances where immediately extricating someone else is essential.

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#278992 - 01/24/16 11:53 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1204
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Tjin
[quote]
Have you tried? Because I found carsdoors to be pretty stubborn. Steel doors (any, not just cars) tend to bent, not break.


I had the oppotunity to force open a car door with a manual tool during a training for emergency teams. We used a specialized axe for that and still struggled to get the door open.
The axe provides much better leverage and grip than a Glock field knife. From that experience I think that a Glock field knife (or any knife of similar size) is not up to the job. That does not even take in consideration that the tang of the Glock knife is too short to really give the stability of a prybar.
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#279005 - 01/24/16 08:51 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: M_a_x]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Just curious, have you ever seen a Glock field knife break at the tang? IME it's an extremely robust knife for its size and weight, which is not a lot more than a Mora and a good deal less than a USMC Kabar or many other 'sharpened prybars' in the 6-7" blade length. I have seen the Glock stand up to an awful lot of abuse, stuff that most of us would never be willing to try with a more expensive knife, including prying open a locked door and punching holes through sheet metal. While I'm not affiliated with the brand in any way, they do know how to make a near-indestructible product.

But anyway, that's totally beside the point. I'm not in any way advocating the idea of relying on the Glock field knife or any other fixed blade in general as your primary rescue tool. It's important to keep in mind though that for practical reasons, very few people keep a full-sized rescue tool in their car. A knife is a different story though, many of us have one within reach for all kinds of utility tasks. It's worthwile to consider that a robust knife, even if by no means ideal for the purpose, can be used as an emergency rescue tool if absolutely needed and in the absence of a better alternative.

99% of the time, such extreme measures are not needed and it's far better to let the pros handle the situation. However, if no help can be expected and push really comes to shove - what do you do? Give up altogether because you're not ideally prepared for the job? Or at least give it a honest try to do something about the situation with what you have at hand?

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#279006 - 01/24/16 09:31 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tom_L]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Easy question - give it your best shot with whatever tool you have. Here's a question for those of you with some experience - might it be easier to cut a hole in the roof, assuming it is accessible and feasible, rather than force the door open, especially if all you have is a sturdy knife?
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#279008 - 01/24/16 09:45 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tom_L]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Tom_L
... for practical reasons, very few people keep a full-sized rescue tool in their car. ...


If you're volunteering for the local rescue squad, your house is located along "Dead Man's Curve" and you keep fining rollover wrecks in your front yard, or for some other reason you want or need to carry some more serious rescue tools, the combination of a Halligan Tool, fire axe, and the hands-on training to use them safely and correctly, allows you force open a surprisingly large variety of vehicles, buildings, doors, padlocks and other things.

They'll cost you a couple of hundred bucks, but they don't take up a huge amount of space in your trunk, and they're serious, versatile tools meant for serious work.

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#279009 - 01/24/16 09:58 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Easy question - give it your best shot with whatever tool you have. Here's a question for those of you with some experience - might it be easier to cut a hole in the roof, assuming it is accessible and feasible, rather than force the door open, especially if all you have is a sturdy knife?


There are two generally reasons to cut a car open to extract a victim:

- Possible neck and/or back injury, which requires the patient to be removed on a spine board.
- The victim is physically trapped in the car, due to collapse of the passenger compartment or intrusions in to the passenger compartment (steering wheel, pedals, dashboard(components)). This however has become less and less of an issue, with newer safer cars.

Cutting a car roof does not help in these situations. It does create a new hazard; the sharp edges and you are prying with a knife near a patient and well it’s also dangerous to yourself.

Note, sometimes you do not need to cut. Keep things simple. Sliding the seat back or tilt the seat can create space. Also note that cutting is not always the solution, spreading to create space is just as important in the rescue bag of tricks. (note, most cars have a jack, which in some situations could be used as an emergency tool. However most jacks lack proper bases, so they may slip off easily. Again first choice is professional rescue.)

Also if you pry, pry in smart places and sometimes combine it with other tools. For example, for door removal prying space on the hinge side, can open up enough space to access the bolts. The door can then be removed with a socket set.

What some rescue departments do with possible neck and/or spinal injury in car with back access (minivans, hatchbacks), is to remove the back seat, tilt the patient on its chair and slide spine board under the patient and slide the patient out the back. No cutting required, saving time, damage to the vehicle and issues with sharp bits. Tools required: socket set to remove the backseat.

As for a knife as metal cutting tool or pry bar. Well no experience with that use, but compared to a proper tool, a knife looks like a very very poor choice.

Extra note; with crush injuries. If body parts have been crushed and bloodflow stopped for longer periodes of time; beaware of crush syndrome.
_________________________


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#279013 - 01/24/16 11:06 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Stanley Pry Bar

What I keep in my car and have used on a car door, a car trunk, and a house internal door. A hammer helps a bit to get it in.

I also carry a Gerber seat belt cutter with a glass breaking point (never used it), and EMT shears.

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#279014 - 01/25/16 12:44 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: gonewiththewind]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I have one of those in my vehicle trunk - a very versatile instrument. I have a similar bar with a gas shutoff fitting in my CERT bag. Incidentally, if you ever have to excavate a large fossil, the Stanley pry bar, used carefully, is marvelously effective.
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#279015 - 01/25/16 02:36 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: gonewiththewind]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Montanero


OMG, it's only $3.88 as an add-on for Amazon Prime users??? That's a steal!

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#279016 - 01/25/16 03:08 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: gonewiththewind]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I've got a Stanley bar in my truck too. Every tool box should have one. Another to consider is the Stanley FUBAR Demolition Bar Variations on a theme.

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#279017 - 01/25/16 03:17 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: hikermor]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
quoting AKSAR: "Having some means to cut seat belts makes sense for rescuing others. However, I don't think there is often much need for a tool in self rescue. In the vast majority of cases, the best self rescue tool is going to be your hand, simply reaching the buckle and releasing it in the usual manner. "

War story time: Many years ago, I was riding in the passenger seat of a cargo van when it did a 3/4 roll. I wound up hanging on my side from the seat belt (at that moment I really became a believer in seat belt use).. Unbuckling was automatic and easily accomplished.

I would sy my mental faculties were clouded. My first thought was to take pictures for the insurance company.


Another story showing that buckles can jam closed. A friend of mine ended up shiny side down while off roading in his jeep, and was hanging upside down from the belt. His body weight was enough to jam the buckle. Once he got his weight off the belt, he was able to unbuckle himself.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#279021 - 01/25/16 02:57 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tom_L]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1204
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Tom_L
Just curious, have you ever seen a Glock field knife break at the tang?

No, I have not seen that. The tang of this knife is very short and it is the handle that breaks when you try to use it as prybar too hard. As yes, I have seen that happen with mine.
Punching holes in sheet metal is a different subject. The Glock field knife is designed for thrust. The Austrian army has an adapter to use it as bayonet.
I´m not saying that it is an inferior knife. I just don´t think that it´s up to prying open a car door.

Originally Posted By: Tom_L
However, if no help can be expected and push really comes to shove - what do you do? Give up altogether because you're not ideally prepared for the job? Or at least give it a honest try to do something about the situation with what you have at hand?


I´d try an other door first and if that fails, the windshield and the rear window are much easier targets (probably they are already smashed anyway).
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If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#279029 - 01/25/16 08:05 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: gonewiththewind]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Montanero
Stanley Pry Bar ... Gerber seat belt cutter with a glass breaking point (never used it), and EMT shears.


That sounds like a very reasonable, practical, and affordable rescue tool set for a personal vehicle, IMO

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#279032 - 01/25/16 09:16 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
This strikes me as a very unlikely event - Its cool, but the total amount of times I stopped and found somebody trapped by a seat belt? Zero.

Important for LEo and fire/rescue...but for a corporate IT guy?

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#279040 - 01/25/16 10:05 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: TeacherRO]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
This strikes me as a very unlikely event - Its cool, but the total amount of times I stopped and found somebody trapped by a seat belt? Zero.

Important for LEo and fire/rescue...but for a corporate IT guy?


Corporate IT guy driving a top heavy SUV or a soccer mom with gummied up baby seats (Graco released a recall a while back because the child seat latched could get jammed from the typical mush of drool and baby snacks)? It's not beyond the pale, and a Res-Q-Me is cheap insurance. Besides, even before the hammer/cutter tools became popular, it was recommended to carry an automatic punch as an escape tool.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#279055 - 01/26/16 02:41 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
The people I helped out of their cars were not rescue people, just normal people on a regular trip. They did not have anything to get out with, so I got in.

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#279056 - 01/26/16 02:48 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: TeacherRO]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
This strikes me as a very unlikely event - Its cool, but the total amount of times I stopped and found somebody trapped by a seat belt? Zero.

Important for LEo and fire/rescue...but for a corporate IT guy?


Some people spend a lot more time driving on bad or remote country roads than others do. If, for example, you regularly commute between your country place and the city along twisty mountain roads where professional rescue will take time to reach, you're gonna encounter a certain number of serious wrecks over the years, where you might want to be able to do something other than wait.

The same might be true if there are a lot of bridges and causeways over water in your area, or roads that are prone to black ice formation in cold weather

I had a friend who lived along a bad downhill curve on country road where a fire/rescue response might take a half-hour or more. But his road got a fair amount of traffic because it was an alternate route between a large urban area and some popular recreational and vacation areas. He said there were bad wrecks along that stretch of road at least a few times every year, often ending up crashing right onto to his property.

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#279067 - 01/26/16 05:23 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: JeffMc]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Medical/extrication emergencies are rare and unlikely, but they do happen... just a couple from my personal experience.

at a scientific conference, giving info in a day long seminar in Washington DC on a project I was directing - heard a sound like a ripe watermelon hitting the floor - it was my #1 assistant, good friend, and confidante - in a grand mal seizure - something I knew was unprecedented in his medical history. Oddly enough, in a bunch of archaeologists, a RN beat me to his side. Incidentally, since he was unconscious, I was able to give a medical history to the responding MET, call his wife, etc.

My GF, halfway through a CPR course, was grocery shopping, and had to deal with a sudden loss of consciousness on the part of fellow shopper...What are the odds?

Out for a run, I witness an auto accident about a block away. Without breaking stride, I come running up to the vehicle. Once again, a RN beats me to the scene....

Perhaps the take away from all of this is - don't worry, there's always a RN lurking nearby and they can take charge..but I think you should be ready to step up to the plate when your number is called.
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#279101 - 01/27/16 04:13 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: TeacherRO]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
This strikes me as a very unlikely event - Its cool, but the total amount of times I stopped and found somebody trapped by a seat belt? Zero.

Important for LEo and fire/rescue...but for a corporate IT guy?


Do you carry a knife? Then it should be able to cut through a seat belt. If it can't, then you are carrying a butter knife. Sharpen it.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#279119 - 01/28/16 03:35 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
I travel regularly to Lake Tahoe in the winter. Every time it is snowing, there is at least one car overturned. Where I go, the chance of my car overturning is NOT negligible. I may be the best driver in the world, but I cannot control the drivers around me. Also, my driving skills are irrelevant if I am a passenger.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#279141 - 01/28/16 09:43 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Tjin]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Tjin
I personally have a spring loaded rescue tool with seatbelt cutter mounted on my door (lifehammer evolution), one old fashion hammer with cutter on the center console (lifehammer classic, as delivered by the car dealership) and a reqme on my car keys.


I just got the Life Hammer Evolution, and I really like how easy it is to mount on your car door. It looks great on my car! It's going to replace the previous edition of Life Hammer -- mounting that requires drilling holes in your car, and I ended up just using duct tape. Thanks for alerting me to it! I'm slightly concerned about how securely the mount will hold on to the hammer if the car flips over. Any thoughts on this?

I think ireckon is right: if you have a good EDC knife, it should also be able to handle seat belts. I personally prefer a partially serrated knife for cutting rope and webbing.

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#279161 - 01/29/16 05:26 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Bingley]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: Bingley
I'm slightly concerned about how securely the mount will hold on to the hammer if the car flips over. Any thoughts on this?


There is always a trade of between holding power vs easy access. Totally depending on impact force and direction...
_________________________


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#279162 - 01/29/16 06:16 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Yes, a decently sharp knife should make quick work of a seat belt. The crucial question is what else might it cut- living flesh immediately adjacent?

Just curious - does anyone have access to data that indicates how often dedicated seat belt cutters are necessary, or even employed, compared to the alternative of simply unlatching the seat belt (how anticlimactic!)?


Edited by hikermor (01/29/16 06:23 PM)
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#279164 - 01/29/16 07:01 PM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Gerber Hinderer

Syderco Assist

Two knifes intended for such uses. No point for stabbing, intended to be placed under the belt and to cut outward.

I have never had to cut a seatbelt myself, but had to break a couple of windows and pry open a door. Still, doesn't here to be "equipped to survive"!

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#280225 - 04/05/16 01:19 AM Re: Carry a blade that can cut through a seatbelt... [Re: ireckon]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
wouldn't most knives work - esp away from the trapped person - i.e. nearest the door?

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