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#278113 - 12/21/15 04:42 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: CANOEDOGS]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3599
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
bacpac i saw you using that stove just a few days ago on Youtube.
i have a couple of those,the real German Army ones but never really used them.i had one in my PFD ditch kit and some Esbit tabs.
what i liked about that little folding stove/pot stand was that it gave you a dry spot and some wind shield for any sort of fuel you could get your hands on.
for day hikes i would use some sort of alcohol burner and for a
survival kit the Esbit tabs and matches folded up inside.


Thanks Canoedogs! They really are a well-designed little stove. You can use them as a small wood stove and I've got a bigger one (Coghlans, maybe?) that is just the right size to hold an alcohol stove. They're not as fancy as the new folding box stoves but they're very adaptable.
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#278114 - 12/21/15 04:44 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: LesSnyder]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3599
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
Jacqui... nice to see your byline again... an option for an alcohol, paraffin (sooty), gel or twig stove...I opened up the fuel feed hole of a Swiss Ranger stove ($10US about 3 years ago), originally to fit the Trangia, and then enlarged it to fit the Sterno canister... I was not aware that there were smaller Sterno canisters, and would not have opened it up as much for a do-over... the 500ml cup has tapered sides and heats quickly... with the kit is a spun aluminum bottle with cork top that nests...







Thanks so much, Les. I missed you guys!

Our local army surplus store carries ranger/volcano stoves. They look pretty cool. Love multi-fuel options!
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#278120 - 12/21/15 11:04 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: bacpacjac]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 849
Loc: Southern California
Esbit. Cold weather wreaks havoc with alchohol vapor pressure, limiting stoves to to open flame and updraft types.

I've used homemade "hobo" stoves which operate on the same principle as the Ranger/Volcano stove. Messy, but very hot. If you're going to go with a twig stove, give some thought to woodgas stoves. They're supposed to be a lot cleaner then hobo stoves.
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#278122 - 12/21/15 11:21 PM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Mark_R]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3599
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks so much, Mark! Points well-taken.

We made a DIY rocket stove out of tin cans in the Spring and it works great. Now for a smaller,packable version. Those little wood gasifiers look awesome!
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#278124 - 12/22/15 12:29 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Mark_R]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 324
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
Esbit. Cold weather wreaks havoc with alchohol vapor pressure, limiting stoves to to open flame and updraft types.

I've used homemade "hobo" stoves which operate on the same principle as the Ranger/Volcano stove. Messy, but very hot. If you're going to go with a twig stove, give some thought to woodgas stoves. They're supposed to be a lot cleaner then hobo stoves.

volcano stove need to go a step further and skirt the cookpot as well fully, thats extra heat smile




henson2buckpopup



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#278127 - 12/22/15 02:18 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Mark_R]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2719
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
Esbit. Cold weather wreaks havoc with alchohol vapor pressure, limiting stoves to to open flame and updraft types.


+1. Below a certain temperature, I think the heat loss would make an alcohol stove unable to boil water. That said, a creative setup using lightweight insulation could possibly turn that around.

YMMV, but I don't care to use an alcohol (methanol) stove unless the cup/pot has a tight fitting lid. In my few modest experiments, I always got a hint of unburned alcohol in the flue gases, and its affinity for water may not improve the quality of the tea...

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#278128 - 12/22/15 02:42 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: bacpacjac]
Pete Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1352
agree with Doug on both points above.

I am cautious when using alcohol for fuel and ALWAYS put a lid on the container that is being boiled. It's too easy for the alcohol vapors to condense on cool metal and drip into your food/drink.

I have never used alcohol for anything serious - only demo projects at home - just to test the system. But I would be worried about alcohol as a true survival fuel. When you are seriously cold - you need real heat fast. I don't know how well that fuel system would work for -40 degrees, or for hypothermic situations.



Edited by Pete (12/22/15 02:55 AM)

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#278130 - 12/22/15 03:32 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: Pete]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6612
Loc: southern Cal
If you are contending with -40 temps, you want liquid petrochemical fuels. Don't mess with either esbit or alcohol. Kerosene worked fine for me in those conditions.

Consider different fuels for different seasons.
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#278131 - 12/22/15 05:03 AM tRe: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: hikermor]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4932
Loc: SOCAL
With the cold weather considerations in mind, may I recommend an MSR Whisperlite International -- white gas, kerosene and unleaded auto fuel in a pinch. Alcohol and Esbit have their place, but if it's cold and you really need heat, why limit yourself to ultra-light methods.

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#278132 - 12/22/15 05:20 AM Re: Esbit or Alcohol Stove for GHB [Re: bacpacjac]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2164
Loc: Great Plains
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
I really like ESBIT. It does stink pretty bad and leaves a crappy residue but it burns great and keeps forever. It's a lot better emergency tinder than Wetfire, too; I promise you that if you count on Wetfire eventually you'll be let down. The packaging seems prone to leaking, and once air hits it it's inevitable that it will fail if you store it long enough. In my experience the stuff just isn't that reliable. But ESBIT is! You could leave a block of it unwrapped on the coffee table and it will still work a few decades later.


Agreed, Phaerus. Wetfire too small and expensive to count on. I like that they're waterprooofish, but it's still not worth it to me to buy more. The cheaper brands in a good waterproof container works better, IMHO. The more I test them, the more I lean to the ESBIT brand tabs. I have to go out of my way to get them, but it's worth the trip if I stock up a bit. wink


If you use it as a convenience and aren't relying on it to save your life, check out the Weber cubes. They're almost certainly the exact same thing, or are nearly identical, but they cost 1/20 as much or so. FWIW I've tested them next to WetFire and I can't tell any difference. They share the same volatility problem with WetFire- if not stored well sealed they go bad in a few weeks. But I have used a commercial chamber vacuum sealer to seal them in mylar and have had good luck with them after a couple years of storage. I've sent them to a couple of ETS members and they have had good luck with them so far as I've known. Of course, I also have used the same mylar pouches to seal ESBIT and I think that's the better option if emergency use is your concern.
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