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#277862 - 12/04/15 11:10 PM Re: A new compass thread [Re: Mark_F]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
I don't think a compass is strictly necessary. Neither is a steel knife, signal mirror or a box of windproof matches. People did just fine without those modern amenities for many millenia... Apart from those unlucky ones that didn't. History is full of folks who met their sad demise because they weren't really equipped well enough to survive.

On a serious note, it is possible to get by most of the time without a map and compass. Terrain association, sun and stars, it's all good. That said, I would put a quality compass very high on my priority list when it comes to navigation in unknown, unfamiliar or generally difficult terrain.

Much of my hiking takes place in dense woodland where conspicuous landmarks are few and far between. I have a pretty good sense of direction and I don't get lost easily (knock on wood!)... But I'd be pretty embarassed to admit how many times checking my bearings with a compass saved me from taking a wrong turn, and possibly from a potential disaster on more than one occasion.

YMMV - but if you don't carry a compass out in the bush you'd better make sure to include a signal mirror in your kit indeed, you might be needing it more often than usual.

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#277863 - 12/05/15 12:17 AM Re: A new compass thread [Re: Tom_L]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Tom_L

Much of my hiking takes place in dense woodland where conspicuous landmarks are few and far between.


Perfect description of a situation where a good compass will prove its value. Not really so necessary in sunny Arizona with its mountainous terrain. Like anything else, the need for a compass, and either other item, depends upon the environment, circumstances, and objective.

I think it is important for all compass users to clearly understand alternatives to compass use - navigating by sun and stars, for example. Be aware of local magnetic variation, which can range from the screwdriver in your shirt pocket to the iron content of the rocks surrounding your location. For that matter, be aware of the limitations of whatever map you may be using (out of date? wrong scale? no topo?)

While I often go months without referring to my compass, it is always in my pack, if not in my pocket. Any decent compass is light, quite reliable, and incredibly useful when you need it - a bit like a FAK (or a knife, matches, or signal mirror) when you think about it......
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#277945 - 12/11/15 11:17 PM Re: A new compass thread [Re: Mark_F]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
In the north with low sun angle in winter and hilly conditions & any cloud/fog with out a Compass you are done!
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#277947 - 12/12/15 03:12 PM Re: A new compass thread [Re: Mark_F]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
The map & compass topic is one of my favorites :-D

My thoughts ...

I think the knowledge of how to use a paper map (as in a USGS topo), compass, and GPS is vital for anyone spending time in the field. This includes understanding map coordinates (Lat/Long & UTM), how to a coordinate on a map, how to read a coordinate from a map, how to enter a coordinate into a GPS, how to use a map to set a compass bearing, ...

Suunto: My Suunto M3 (without mirror) purchased maybe 5-8 years ago is very high quality (no bubbles in capsule, smooth bezel movement, design). Probably my preferred compass across LOTS of them. I can't speak to the current quality.

Navigation by landmarks: Hikermor brings up a VERY good topic that is not mentioned much in forum discussions. Out west navigation using a map can easily be done using visual landmarks. When in a canoe on the Boundary Waters (northern Minnesota/Canada) I genuinely struggles to see features on the horizon, though I've found some people are pretty good at it. In the midwest U.S. navigation by landmarks is really tough. Unless you can spot a identifiable (on the map) antenna or tower navigation has to be done using the map itself. When in completely featureless dense woods or big water the only way to navigate is to get compass bearings from a paper map (field bearing) or to use a GPS with a electronic compass that points the way. The hand compass will certainly be more accurate. If you don't know how to do this the only thing the compass does for you is help you walk in a straight line (to where??)

GPS: The lack of midwest U.S. navigation landmarks is what has lead me to really appreciate the GPS. They get knocked for being battery operated, and I have found myself with dead batteries and no replacements, but that only has happened one time (never again). GPSs make navigation super easy, especially if the GPS is pre-loaded with expected important waypoints. Still, it is critical that users know how to use it, how to convert a GPS coordinate to a place on the paper map, and how to find the coordinate for a place on the paper map.

Type of Compass: I much prefer a good plastic baseplate compass with adjustable declination. Those without a mirror are good for rough directions ("head that way"). Those with a mirror are a much more precise tool ("head toward that big tree on the right"). I've read arguments that both are actually good enough. Since I use a GPS too, I can't comment on the accuracy of non-mirror vs mirror compasses alone. In dense forests a mirror is of little use.

Silva: This has been mentioned before, but do keep in mind that Silva in the U.S. is a completely different company than the original Silva in Europe due to U.S. trademark issues. I'd trust the Europe Silva. Not so sure about the U.S. Silva (I don't buy them because I feel the U.S. company stole Silva's good name and reputation - just my view). Brunton used to sell the real Silva of Europe compasses, but I don't know if that is still true today.

Brunton: This is one of the few U.S. compass makers. An being that I live in the U.S. I tend to want them to be good and high quality. For a while they were merged with Silva of Europe and at that time their product quality suffered (even though the pure Silva products were still high quality). Now Brunton has split away again ... but I'm not sure if their quality has improved (I hope so). Their simple rounded low-cost baseplate compasses are my preferred pocketable compasses (I even bring them to places like Disney World to keep myself oriented - yeah, such a compass nerd).

Military Style Lensatic Compasses (Cammenga & lower cost versions). Lots of folks love these. I bought a Cammenga and really tried to like it. I like the idea the capsule simply can't bubble or run dry ... but without adjustable declination I just didn't care for it. I strongly recommend a good plastic baseplate compass over the lensatic compass (unless you've had enough lensatic training to make up your own mind).

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#277953 - 12/13/15 01:19 AM Re: A new compass thread [Re: KenK]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
A small, but often significant point about topo maps. Consider the age of the map. I worked in a park where the topos were published in 1943. They were among the first to use the then new technology of aerial photography. As a result, the topography, with only a few exceptions, is spot on, but the cultural features are often missing. I have often used two maps,typically a recreation map, which is up to date on roads and trails, and a topo map for the really fine topographic representation. There area also some topo that do not show trails at all accurately; ground truthing must have occurred in a friendly neighborhood bar...
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#277957 - 12/13/15 01:59 AM Re: A new compass thread [Re: hikermor]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 390
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: hikermor
A small, but often significant point about topo maps. Consider the age of the map...There area also some topo that do not show trails at all accurately; ground truthing must have occurred in a friendly neighborhood bar...


I have topos from the 1950s in my daypack. Last month, rehiking a section of the AT--that was rerouted thirty years ago--another hiker warned me that I was going off-trail. "Oh no: this is where the trail went in the seventies" just kind of threw him off.
We crossed paths a couple of hours later. He wanted to know if I was able to "stay on the old trail"...
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Realize.

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#277969 - 12/14/15 10:21 AM Re: A new compass thread [Re: KenK]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
I agree the Suunto M3 is a decent compass. Though to be fair, it has the same limitations as all the modern plastic body compasses marketed by Silva, Brunton, Suunto or Kasper & Richter (another good brand, but for some reason not mentioned very often).

The problem with most liquid filled plastic compasses is that the capsule might break or leak. It's not really a matter of if, but when. Mechanical damage, low temperatures, changes in air pressure are all contributing factors. To be sure, a compass is a precision instrument and should be taken good care of in the field. But stuff happens and my experience suggests even a high end modern compass made by a brand as reputable as Suunto can fail very suddenly and for no good reason.

The main problem IMHO is that the compass capsule is typically made of a relatively hard and brittle plastic liable to microscopic cracks (or worse). Then a bubble will form, at first maybe just a small one but it could grow exponentially at higher altitudes, maybe so much as to interfere with the needle movement. Alas, the Suunto global needle is particularly sensitive to that problem, it just doesn't seem to work correctly without liquid.

K&R has a different solution. They make capsules from a flexible thermoplastic, which expands or contracts depending on the outside temperature and air pressure. It is a sound concept and has been working just fine so far in my experience.

The Cammenga lensatic is an entirely different breed. I like it for what it is, and it is a very useful and reliable tool. Truth be told, you can navigate with a lensatic compass and map just as easily as with a baseplate compass, all it takes is getting used to a slightly different technique. The lack of adjustable declination is a disadvantage, but then again, many if not most "serious" compasses made for professional use lack that feature. Again, it's a matter of technique. You can always navigate by magnetic north if you don't feel like doing a little extra math.

Those who find the above beyond their skill would do better to invest in a land navigation class first. I have met a surprising number of people who bought a compass without really knowing how to use one, which they would never admit obviously. Maybe it's an ego thing but frustrating no less.

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#277979 - 12/14/15 05:54 PM Re: A new compass thread [Re: Tom_L]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
We are dealing with mechanical gadgets, any of which can be broken or fail for a variety of reasons. What should occur is that the user will be well versed in the proper use of the compass and map, be aware of potential problems, checking and constantly verifying. Backup strategies and ploys are always useful.

How many ways are there to determine north if your compass is on the fritz? (and the hoary "moss grows on the n side of trees" doesn't count)
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#277980 - 12/14/15 07:03 PM Re: A new compass thread [Re: hikermor]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: hikermor
How many ways are there to determine north if your compass is on the fritz? (and the hoary "moss grows on the n side of trees" doesn't count)


For me, I can think of a few:
  • Backup compass
  • Technology
  • Observe sunrise and determine where North is from where East is
  • Observe stars and find Polaris
  • Observe known landmarks
  • Shadow stick method
  • Analog watch method, if someone with me is wearing one

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#277981 - 12/14/15 09:00 PM Re: A new compass thread [Re: hikermor]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: hikermor
We are dealing with mechanical gadgets, any of which can be broken or fail for a variety of reasons. What should occur is that the user will be well versed in the proper use of the compass and map, be aware of potential problems, checking and constantly verifying. Backup strategies and ploys are always useful.

How many ways are there to determine north if your compass is on the fritz? (and the hoary "moss grows on the n side of trees" doesn't count)


Yes, there is that. Anything made by man can fail. However, liquid-filled compasses tend to be particularly fragile in my experience. The Cammenga lensatic is a much more robust design on the other hand. A definite plus in my book.

Back in the early 20th century most quality compasses were dry - no liquid, hence no stabilized floating needle, which is a minus at a first glance. On the up side though, I've tinkered with WWI-era military compasses that were still every bit as accurate as the day they left the factory. Despite all the evidence of hard use - some of those toys had been clearly carried on the battlefield and had more nicks and dings than I could count. Compare that to my pampered top-of-the-line Suunto that gave up the ghost after less than a decade of very casual, low stress service.

For some time I did a lot of hiking with an old Soviet army wrist compass. (http://www.thesovietrussia.com/genuine-soviet-military-russian-compass-handheld-wrist-new-surplus) Chunky, primitive and really weird looking, but short of running it over with a truck it could take just about any punishment in the field. So my point is, take away the liquid-filled capsule and it's going to eliminate the Nr.1 problem by far with most modern day compasses.

As far as a low tech alternative to a compass... I think we know the answer to that already. Sun, moon, stars, terrain association - if available/applicable in the first place. A big IF indeed. YMMV but in my opinion there really is no alternative to a good compass other than another compass, GPS or some equivalent modern navigation aid.

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