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#277150 - 10/20/15 07:54 PM Being the gray man
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Do you think about blending in? Are you making decisions when shopping to look as boring as possible? (ABAP).

TRO

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#277153 - 10/20/15 08:25 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I worry about a lot of things, but not about being a "gray man." I usually purchase gear and clothing on the basis of how it performs in the intended environment,not on how it looks. The profile the item might project is of little or no concern to me.

When going on a project or a trip, backpacking or whatever, i usually make it a point to include an article of clothing that is quite bright, if not indeed gaudy. I have spent way too much time looking for dudes who were said to be wearing faded blue jeans and a tan shirt. Still looking for some of them.

That said, there are times when you want to be inconspicuous, and times when you want to stand out. One of the best items I ever had was a reversible down jacket, loden (dull) green on one side and international orange on the other - worked great!
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#277156 - 10/20/15 10:55 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
I did when I was off duty or on leave in certain places in SEA... not so much in the US...

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#277159 - 10/20/15 11:56 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
In urban areas? All day every day. I work to blend in...until I choose not to.

There are times that letting a potential assailant know that you're watching can defuse the situation. When a small escalation is needed, I've asked people politely to stop approaching me or my car -- "That's close enough," delivered firmly will stop most people in their tracks. A few times I've needed to get loud enough for everyone to notice.

Traveling for work is not always fun.

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#277165 - 10/21/15 02:11 AM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
barbakane Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 205
Loc: Florida
The only time I intentionally want to be noticed is at theme parks so my family can spot me easier. Being Florida, I usually wear a thin polyester crew tshirt, Tour de France yellow so I stand out... and look good in the process. Other wise, I dress well for the situation and have backups in the car...black rainjacket in summer and dark blue fleece jacket in "winter". Life's too short for boring.
_________________________
seeking to balance risk and reward
Audaces fortuna iuvat...fortune favors the bold
Practice methodical caution...Les Stroud

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#277168 - 10/21/15 06:42 AM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1562
Forgive me for not answering the question directly.
My post is more like ranting. Sorry.

I am semi-retired and try to have a day every other week "hiding" from everyone including my own family. Just to relax and do what I REALLY want to do or think about without interruption. I found this nice cafe in a neighboring town. Serves nice breakfast and, in the morning, there hardly anyone else. I visited it twice and found it was the paradise I needed to relaxxx. At last.

My tense muscles and overworked brain didn't have enough time to really relax when I heard a story or two about some crimes in quiet places; one in a public park in the early morning, and one in a quiet area not far away. Immediatley my paranoia kicked in to draw all kinds of scenarios ... Someone with a gun entering the secluded cafe and taking the wallet and phone, or worse ... shooting.

A few days ago, a taxi driver was shot , and the car was taken away. The crime was not committed to rob him or in revenge of something, he was a "nobody", or a gray man, but the assialant needed a car - any car - to commit another crime. So, the "nobody" taxi driver got shot.

I am now tossing the coin and wondering if I should go there next week.

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#277173 - 10/21/15 01:49 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: Chisel]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
of course you should go, take a G19 wink
I dress to blend. If I'm in a room full of suits, I wear a suit, but I never wear "camouflage" and I rarely see a need to take my G19 along wink

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#277178 - 10/21/15 04:53 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
With all the tacti-cool stuff out there these days, does anyone else feel like you almost stand out MORE trying to be the "grey man?"
_________________________
Uh ... does anyone have a match?

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#277182 - 10/21/15 07:08 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
I do try to keep a low profile in general, maybe even more so outdoors. Blending in with the environment has always seemed like a good idea to me. Much easier to get closer to wildlife and basically create less of a signature, particularly if you know how to move quietly. To me, that makes for a more enjoyable experience in the woods because it lets me get closer to the natural environment.

A lot of my outdoor gear and clothing is military surplus but I do try to stay away from camo as much as possible. I guess G.I. Joe look is not quite to my taste. Besides, it makes you stand out in a somewhat more civilized setting, which defeats the whole idea of blending in in the first place.

I realize full well that my preference for olive drab or subdued colors in general poses a risk in case I ever get lost or need rescue. Hikermor makes a good point - having at least one article of clothing that stands out from the environment could be a big asset in a rescue situation. A bright red or orange plastic bag would work fine, too - and doubles as an emergency poncho or bivy bag.

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#277192 - 10/21/15 08:34 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Can someone explain to me when and why you want to be a "gray man"?

People seem to use "blending in" interchangeably with being a "gray man." I'll tell you a story about my friend blending in. He moved to a foreign country, and his language skills weren't quite up to speed. But he wanted to fit in with his friends and acquaintances over there. So he never left a get-together early because he couldn't understand the conversation. He stayed and drank with everybody. For him that was blending in. Is that what you mean by blending in, you know, drinking with your buddies?

I'm not making fun. It seems to me that the whole "gray man" thing has to do with personal safety, rather than a host of other reasons that you might want to blend in during peace time (make friends, have a good time). The latter are not survival concerns. But if we're talking about "dressing to blend in," then in a lost of survival situations, it's a bad idea. You want to be noticed by rescuers and other hikers, hunters, etc.

I don't know about what's in your closet, but I'd think in most situations in peace time, it would take a lot NOT to blend in. Besides, Halloween is coming up...

If we're talking about civil unrest, invading armies, etc., then maybe it's a different game. But I am guessing what counts as "gray" can vary from situation to situation.

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#277194 - 10/21/15 08:40 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
The way I understand the concept of "the gray man" is that he draws no attention, blending not with the natural environment, but the human environment.

What draws attention, and makes you stick in the memory of people, is color, contrast and movement. Even in a crowd of people that are brightly dressed, being not so brightly dressed can help you be a gray man. You do not want to contrast with the crowd, just not be very bright. In human environments, moving in ways that do not flow with the normal movement patterns also draws attention.

The point is to be forgettable. When someone asks: "Do you remember seeing a guy that looks like this", the preferred answer is no. They may have seen you, but you just did not make an impact on their memory.

That said, wearing clothing that is similar in appearance (style and color) will generally not arouse much attention by itself. There are "shiny" people to, people who just draw attention by their behavior and how they interact with others. If you are one of those, try not to interact with people any more than necessary.

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#277203 - 10/22/15 03:21 AM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1418
Loc: Nothern Ontario
The concept of being the gray man is more of an internet myth then real life thinking.

On your next commute to work, whether by car, transit or walking. Do you actually see someone purposely trying to be the gray man? In all likelihood, probably not. You are far more likely to see people dressed casually or dressed business casual or in full business attire making their way to work, shopping, out for a walk etc,

Even after big events such as 9/11, the northeast blackout of 2003 where 10's of thousands of people made their way home on foot, I don't recall seeing or reading where people changed their clothes and mode of thinking to gray man due to some further imagined threats to their well being.

Yes, a lot of people who were prepared, may of had a change of clothes or more comfortable shoes or boots but they were in the vast minority. Most simply and safely made their way home or to other alternate destinations with what clothes they had on without resorting to being the gray man.

That all said. If you wear a business suit into a rough and rundown area of town or conversely you wear a cutoff shirt, shorts and old dirty runners into the business district of any major city or area, you will stand out and will attract a lot more attention. Whereas someone who is dressed casually and who does not suffer from the mythical gray man mentality would easily blend into either area without notice.

Another similar subject. The other internet myth of being dressed in some type of a uniform with a hard hat or other prop such as carrying a clipboard in some crisis event is supposed to help you gain stature or access to something that the person standing next to you cannot...I don't buy it and never have heard of any reliable and verifiable source where this has occurred.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#277215 - 10/22/15 03:24 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: Mark_F]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
If you stand out more, you´re not doing it right.
That can often be observed with geocachers. They tend to act suspiously inconspicuous.
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#277217 - 10/22/15 04:34 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
How would you be the gray man if you're black in a white neighborhood, or white in a black neighborhood, or the only non-Indian guy in a Diwali party where everyone is dressed colorfully and dancing? (Don't know whether there are Diwali parties. My knowledge of Diwali comes mostly from a TV show called *The Office*.)

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#277218 - 10/22/15 04:47 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2946
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
I believe the "grey man" is a Hollywood trope. In Men in Black, agents wore black suits, black ties and white shirts and drove black cars (unless they drive upside down) to "blend in." We see this in The Matrix. People wore black and white to "blend in."

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#277220 - 10/22/15 05:22 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Generally, I enjoy buying clothes with brighter colors.

Sometimes, the best grey man is "hiding in plain sight". In the suburbs and urban environments, probably the best grey men are guys walking around with fluorescent vests fixing stuff. If they were wearing "boring" clothing while fixing stuff, they'd be more likely to have the cops called on them. I live in the suburbs on a court with little traffic. Anybody I don't recognize who is walking near my house automatically stands out. However, if a guy has a fluorescent vest with a "Comcast" logo, I would not think much about him, unless I'm really concentrating.

Another example of a grey man is a guy with a large DSL camera with a zoom lens in a crowd, like a concert, ball game, race, etc. Nobody really notices him. Or if people notice him, people expect him to be up front, in the way, etc. Add a badge around his neck, and he's even more grey.


_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#277241 - 10/23/15 02:05 AM Re: Being the gray man [Re: ireckon]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1418
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: ireckon


Sometimes, the best grey man is "hiding in plain sight". In the suburbs and urban environments, probably the best grey men are guys walking around with fluorescent vests fixing stuff. If they were wearing "boring" clothing while fixing stuff, they'd be more likely to have the cops called on them. I live in the suburbs on a court with little traffic. Anybody I don't recognize who is walking near my house automatically stands out. However, if a guy has a fluorescent vest with a "Comcast" logo, I would not think much about him, unless I'm really concentrating


Thieves and other life criminal types often disguise themselves as utility or construction workers by wearing hard hats, hi-vis vests etc.

Any utility or construction worker in my neighborhood who does not appear to have a legit need to be there and seems out of place, certainly gets my attention.

Related links: (many more can be found via a Google search.)

Burglars in disguise in Mid-City

11 things criminals do when they pretend to be utility workers

Utility impersonators put neighborhood on edge

Home burglars dress up as utility workers

Burglary suspect caught

Suspect poses as worker in job site burglary

_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#277242 - 10/23/15 03:05 AM Re: Being the gray man [Re: Teslinhiker]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Maybe those workers get your attention, but I am speaking generally about most people.

I went jogging the other day. Some guys were working on some electrical wires in a box in the street. They had fluorescent vests and a professional looking truck. I made eye contact, waved, and kept jogging right past them. Most people would have responded the same way as I did. Personally, I would not be able to make it through the day if I was suspicious of every worker in a fluorescent vest.

If they had been wearing drab clothing, I would have been suspicious.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#277245 - 10/23/15 07:01 AM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 571
Loc: UK
I think people are confusing the wisdom of being 'the grey man' in some situations; with the need to be one all the time.
In my parachute regiment selection I certainly wanted to be the grey man. Come last in the runs and the sergeants will be thinking; 'weakling; we'll get rid of him'. Come in first and it'll be 'so he thinks he's fit does he? we'll break him'.

A grey man is the last thing anyone would want to be the rest of the time. Life rafts are orange for a reason.
A fire in the office and I want people to be thinking "joey's not here." at the gathering point.
qjs

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#277298 - 10/26/15 06:54 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
and it changes, walk a few blocks from my campus to downtown and your choices stand out. I like to keep it in mind when buying new gear -- not too tacticool.

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#277327 - 10/27/15 05:58 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
barbakane Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 205
Loc: Florida
I find that the way I carry myself helps me in everyday life. I walk confidently..some say I walk too fast. More confident people, meaning more situationally aware people, act differently. I'd think more inexperienced potential perps would find an easier target. Surroundings being as they are, I constantly look around me..quickly scanning first near, then again further out. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but I've been doing that 40+ yrs. Works for me.
_________________________
seeking to balance risk and reward
Audaces fortuna iuvat...fortune favors the bold
Practice methodical caution...Les Stroud

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#277334 - 10/28/15 01:41 AM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
and it changes, walk a few blocks from my campus to downtown and your choices stand out. I like to keep it in mind when buying new gear -- not too tacticool.


The tacticool gear is what caused me to remember one individual. He was a big guy, very casually dressed. That in and of itself wasn't memorable. The MaxP versapack bumping on his hip.... That's what did it. My first thought was he was carrying. Had he been carrying a non-tactical bag, I doubt I would have remembered him.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#277348 - 10/28/15 04:49 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: Mark_R]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
The tacticool gear is what caused me to remember one individual. He was a big guy, very casually dressed. That in and of itself wasn't memorable. The MaxP versapack bumping on his hip.... That's what did it. My first thought was he was carrying. Had he been carrying a non-tactical bag, I doubt I would have remembered him.


That's also a reflection of you and/or environement. I carry various types of bags. One is a MaxP. Another is a small leather bag that looks as non-tactical as possible without looking like a woman's purse.

In California, I am not unusual looking. I have been carrying a man bag for years, and I have asked various people. Everybody assumes I just have a lot of stuff to carry. However, when my family visits from Lousiana or Texas, they immediately ask if I'm packing. It doesn't matter what bag it is.

Anyway, going without a man bag is just super inconvenient for me at this point. I don't know how other guys do it, unless they enjoy wearing baggy, frumpy clothing with lots of pockets. I personally prefer my clothes to fit well on my body.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#277358 - 10/28/15 08:50 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: ireckon]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: ireckon

That's also a reflection of you and/or environement. I carry various types of bags. One is a MaxP. Another is a small leather bag that looks as non-tactical as possible without looking like a woman's purse.

In California, I am not unusual looking. I have been carrying a man bag for years, and I have asked various people. Everybody assumes I just have a lot of stuff to carry. However, when my family visits from Lousiana or Texas, they immediately ask if I'm packing. It doesn't matter what bag it is.

Anyway, going without a man bag is just super inconvenient for me at this point. I don't know how other guys do it, unless they enjoy wearing baggy, frumpy clothing with lots of pockets. I personally prefer my clothes to fit well on my body.


That's kind of the point of greyman. Don't stick out in a particular environment. Certain patterns and styles of clothing and gear only blend if they're part of a limited demographic. I.e. Tactical stands out unless you're a teenager or active or ex-military. A leather messenger bag/satchel is a non-entity unless it's distinctive (i.e. Ferrari red) in some other way.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#278622 - 01/07/16 08:33 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Also gray & black clothing travels well and shows less dirt. ( But its hot in Summer)

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#278632 - 01/07/16 10:43 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Depends. I usually wear cargo pants and jacket with lots of pockets. usually black, earth, green and navy blue. Colours that can "camoflage" me without being obvious about it.

Bright colours equals (in my view) easy target.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#278634 - 01/07/16 11:24 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Depends. I usually wear cargo pants and jacket with lots of pockets. usually black, earth, green and navy blue. Colours that can "camoflage" me without being obvious about it.

Bright colours equals (in my view) easy target.


The utility of various hues depends entirely upon the situation. I have spent countless hours searching for lost/departed souls dressed in dull, earth tone colors. While bright colors do make you an easy target, that is a good thing, especially if you are in any kind of distress.

I was packing for a field trip the other day, throwing in mostly normal, fairly dull colors, and then I added a bright orange shirt, thinking "you never know, this just might be handy...."

I think this "gray (or is it grey?)man stuff is pretty conjectural. I doubt that the bad guys pay much attention to the color, or even the colour, of your garb.



Edited by hikermor (01/09/16 06:25 PM)
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Geezer in Chief

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#278635 - 01/07/16 11:40 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Back in the 80's in Spain (and maybe now too) if you dressed in black you'd disappear in a crowd because there were lots of folks in black. Go to Mardi Gras or one of many other festivals (i say Rio de Janeiro) and if you dress outlandishly you'll fit right in.

Being gray is not about wearing a specific color, but about wearing attire and carrying yourself such that you blend and aren't noticed. Gray is also attitude. Look like you belong.

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#278685 - 01/09/16 03:52 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Bright colours equals (in my view) easy target.


Experience in urban geocaching tells me differently. Bright neon yellow vests seem to make you virtually invisible. Nobody stops to look what you are inspecting. Plain clothes draw attention in this situation.
It´s really about blending in.
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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#278690 - 01/09/16 07:36 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
the yellow vest thing is like the "man with a clip board"
back in the 70's we did that at college and got a nice chair
out of the lounge.one guy wore a white shirt, dress pants and had the clip board and the other jeans and a work shirt.
we flipped chairs over to look at the numbers on the bottom even making people get up so we could check them out and took a nice one back to our room.

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#296820 - 08/17/20 08:52 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
I think part of this is being aware of how you look and deciding if you want to stand out.

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#296824 - 08/18/20 09:00 PM Re: Being the gray man [Re: TeacherRO]
Acropolis50 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/20/19
Posts: 69
CANOEDOGS: That’s a fun college story . I’m fairly sure it would still work in many places.

Remember the origin of the term “ gray man”. derives from the 50’s movie ( and much laternovel) of the same name, “ The man in the gray flannel suit.” A critique on the crushing cultural, moral, outlook, political, and satorial COMFORMITY. post WW II America. . The growth fhe birth of cookie-cutter Levittown type suburbs and mass marketing advertising to create a consumer society. It was a wrenching change from pre war America , not to mention the millions of returning, soldiered/ sailors/ airmen, many suffering from some degree of PTSD.

Remember how much drinking was featured in all those 50’s movies. Remember how much alcohol was consumed, generally, post WW II. That was the liquid Valium the “silent generation”. My Dad, heaven rest him, was that grey man. A working class, city kid,first generation American male, who’s college career was derailed by WWW II. He used to say that he enlisted in early 1940 for 12 months and 5 years later, after a government sponsored walking tour. ( he was infantry) often under fire, That walking tour inculuded England,, Scotland, Normandy, France , Belgium, Luxembourg , Germany and Chechoslavakia, , they let him go home after decorating him for bravery under fire. He never spoke of his decorations, but I fed tat decoration text citation, many years later. A skinny,small, quiet man, who although he didn’t drink, did almost strangle my mother, screaming “ I’m going to kill you, you f**king Nazis...” when awoken one post war summer night, by a low flowing plane.

He gave us a good life, and me a good education, but never did reach his potential, because he didn’t get back to college. He, was a quiet man who never talked about war or emotion and buried his PTSD in workaholism. I remember him going to work in a starched white shirt , plain tie and gray flannel suit.


The whole thing was so suffocating that Boomers rebelled, built on the shoulders of the Beats and gave us the swinging 60s and 70s and the cultural and political discord we’re still vying over today.. Remember that Trump and Biden are really just the oldest of the Boomers. And here we are still talking about whether or not and how to be the “gray man” . It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

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