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#276595 - 09/10/15 05:39 PM <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Remember that British Airways 777 that caught fire at Mccarren about 2 days ago? Apparently the evacuation was delayed by passengers retrieving their carryons and taking selfies. I initially thought there were just a handfull of materialistic twerps who were gumming up everything, but the Guardian video shows it was most almost everybody who grabbed their carryons on the away out.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/se...finished-flying

(Facepalm)I think it's now time to add "most people" onto the hazards of air travel.
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#276596 - 09/10/15 06:24 PM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: Mark_R]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Yes, a bunch of folks worried about their personal items, jewelry, and basic necessities. . .and I agree, a significant danger to all
but...
I inject insulin 5x per day and I have to admit that I probably, almost certainly, out of sheer instinct, would have grabbed my small travel bag containing my insulin and supplies (it's about the size of a lunch bag).
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#276597 - 09/10/15 06:24 PM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: Mark_R]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Its the folks who keep on their high heels when they jump into the rubber dingies off a sinking ship you need to keep an eye on. wink
Folks will carry on to do 'normal' behaviors in abnormal time critical dangerous emergency situations. Many would have sat there and potentially burnt to death if they were not told to get up, move and evacuate.
Its a well known psychological problem for life threating situation.

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#276600 - 09/10/15 06:46 PM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Bottom line is that plane was evacuated with no loss of life, just like the "miracle on the Hudson" a few years ago. Where is the evidence for the delays of which you speak? - the footage of people wheeling luggage?

I have not had to evacuate a plane quickly, but I would almost surely grab the small backpack that I stow underneath the seat in front of me. It contains a small FAK and other items that might come in handy. Would I bother to open an overhead compartment? - probably not, but I might consider it if I could do so without delaying anyone's evacuation. Action would depend upon circumstances.

In any case, I would try to expedite the evacuation and assist anyone who was losing their grip....
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#276602 - 09/10/15 06:55 PM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: bws48]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: bws48
Yes, a bunch of folks worried about their personal items, jewelry, and basic necessities. . .and I agree, a significant danger to all
but...
I inject insulin 5x per day and I have to admit that I probably, almost certainly, out of sheer instinct, would have grabbed my small travel bag containing my insulin and supplies (it's about the size of a lunch bag).


A couple of my friends are also insulin dependent. Their kit is about the size of personal FAK, and is usually on their belt or in a small waist pack. When I travel, there is a pill holder that does not ever leave my person so long as I'm awake and dressed. In it is a couple of Aspirins and a 5 day supply of my perscription medications.
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#276603 - 09/10/15 07:43 PM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: hikermor]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Bottom line is that plane was evacuated with no loss of life, just like the "miracle on the Hudson" a few years ago. Where is the evidence for the delays of which you speak? - the footage of people wheeling luggage?



You're average purse/murse is about 4-6L, and that won't significantly slow anybody down or block the aisle. The 40-50L rolling luggage, the large travel totes (30L?), the 30-40L backpacks all take some manuvering to get down the aisle in a hurry. Those do slow people down.

The safety requirements for a passenger jet are evacuate everybody in less then 90 seconds from a full plane. The crew accounts note that it took several minutes to evacuate the half empty plane with only one emergency exit out of commision. This speaks very poorly of the passenger body.

Had the fire not been noticed until after the point of no return (the point at which the aircraft does not have enough runway to abort the takeoff), the pilot's only options were to either drive the 70+ ton plane off the end of the runway, and maybe across Paradise Rd or Las Vegas Blvd. Or, take off and circle around while on fire. The aircraft was already upto 90kts on it's take-off roll when the fire was noticed, and a few more seconds would have put it past that point. Either one would have resulted in a much smaller window to evacuate the plane where any delay could prove painfully fatal to the unlucky schmiels farther from the exit.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#276604 - 09/10/15 07:56 PM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: Mark_R]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
They were flying out of Vegas, so gambling may have been a way of life,and no big deal....
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#276606 - 09/11/15 12:19 AM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: Mark_R]
Ren Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 522
Loc: Wales, UK

There was an article on the BBC several months ago, with a guy that studies disasters and peoples reactions.

Unfortunately quick search fails to find it.

His conclusions were pretty terrifying, that only something like 15% of people in a disaster situation are actually helping.
10% actually make matters worse, and the rest, 75% do neither.

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#276607 - 09/11/15 04:28 AM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: Mark_R]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
I think one of the best sources about how people actually behave in disaster situations is still Amanda Ripley's 2009 book "The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes - and Why".

A few panic, a few are clear headed and do well, but most just wait passively for someone to tell them what to do. Since taking bags is what one normally does when getting of a plane, they will take bags (unless someone orders them not to).

One of the best things someone could have done in that situation would be to have yelled as loudly and forcefully and aggressively as possible "YOU! ...LEAVE THE BAGS! ....GET OUT NOW!"


Edited by AKSAR (09/11/15 04:32 AM)
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#276608 - 09/11/15 06:51 AM Re: <semi-rant> Dying of the dumbs [Re: Mark_R]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Human behavior is a very complex thing. Both when people are on there own and also in groups. Snapping people out of there routine (getting out the same way the got in, taking there bags with them), cultural/tradition (there have been cases where man let woman go first; which is not very efficient) and group behavior (do whatever everybody is (not) doing).

Snapping people out of this behavior is hard. Especially when people are not trained to do so and have no intention to even try taking note of any safety issue. Even the little safety briefing/video at the start of a flight; how many people actuall listen?

Wonder what recommendation would be done if many people would have died because of people getting there bags; More aggresive communicaty by the flight crew? big fines for people with bags during a emergency? Automatic locking overhead storage bins (with obvious signs it's locked) during take off/landing? No more carry on bags?
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