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#276271 - 08/19/15 07:47 AM Re: The ALONE series [Re: wildman800]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Hmm, the only mammals that seemed to be in abundance were black bears, cougars and wolves, plus a few mice. Not sure if there are actually rabbits or deer on Vancouver Island? Or really any other kind of game commonly hunted for food? IIRC the contestants were not allowed to bring metal wire for snares, which would be a considerable handicap.

Given that the contestants were not particularly familiar with the local environment and had no access to truly effective weapons (eg. a high-powered rifle or shotgun) I am not surprised they had little luck as far as hunting.

I guess one could bring down a bear with a good bow, possibly a compound, maybe a very powerful longbow or recurve. But it would take some luck and a lot of guts no doubt. Not an easy thing to pull off if you're alone, hungry and exhausted. The participants were apparently very limited in the kind of archery equipment they could take. Most seemed to be carrying a 45 to 50lb recurve plus wooden arrows only. Insufficient for bear hunting IMO.

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#276276 - 08/19/15 04:56 PM Re: The ALONE series [Re: wildman800]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Perhaps, they were restricted on game/fish gathering? Also, I saw that only one of them (Alan) selected the snare wire: http://www.history.com/shows/alone/cast/alan-kay , but he has mentioned once (in the ep.9) that his loops in the grass never took anything (I'd rather put them on the trees for squirrels and alike).



I think, he was either too lazy, or already exhausted after the rainfalls period to research trails and make enough traps (same with Sam Larson, who made just 4-5 simplistic falling traps, when 20-30 are needed typically). By the way, our beloved LM Multitool was available for pick up as well, but only one guy (Wayne) took it...

Personally, I would be relying solely on the ocean, as the game is definitely looks quite aware of hunters, even squirrels (ep.9s bow hunting attempt) seem extremely cautious. The tide, soil, and abundance of the construction wood - looks perfect for gradually building a massive stationary fish trap, i.e.: http://preparednessadvice.com/uncategorized/how-to-trap-fish/#.VdStbPlVhBc the gill net and basket trap, which were proven to work there, are toys compared to that.

Also, I know for sure, that place must be abundant of edible mushrooms. That would be the first thing to research and prepare for, as soon as they knew the approximate area (they've been told that 2 weeks before the journey).


Edited by Alex (08/19/15 05:53 PM)
Edit Reason: image added

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#276277 - 08/19/15 07:27 PM Re: The ALONE series [Re: wildman800]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
The list of 20 items they could choose 10 from is (number on the right is how many times it was claimed by Alone folks):

Code:
1. Ferro Rod (10)
2. Regular Knife (9)
3. Large Knife (Khukuri)
4. Axe (10)
5. Saw (6)
6. Leathermen Multi-Tool (1)
7. Sharpening Stone (2)
8. Sling Shot (2)
9. 300 yards single filament line with 25 assorted hooks (10)
10. 550 paracord – 20m (5)
11. 3.5lb wire (1)
12. 2 Qt Pot (10)
13. Canteen/Waterbottle (3)
14. Gill Net (4)
15. Bow & 6 Arrows (4)
16. 12×12 ground Tarp (6)
17. Extra Tarp (1)
18. Sleeping Bag (10)
19. Bivy Bag (2)
20. Emergency Rations (3)

My 10 items would be:
1. Ferro Rod (10)
2. Large Knife (khukuri) (1)
3. Axe (10)
4. Leatherman Multi-Tool (1)
5. 300 yards single filament line with 25 assorted hooks (10)
6. 3.5lb wire (1)
7. 2 Qt Pot (10)
8. 12×12 ground Tarp (6)
9. Extra Tarp (1)
10. Sleeping Bag (10)

Not taking and why:

2. Regular Knife (9)
- Large figured blade of khukuri is very versatile + 2-3 LM knifes - should be more than enough.

5. Saw (6)
- The axe provided is good. I'm good with axe even with 1' wide logs.

7. Sharpening Stone (2)
- LM has good files.

8. Sling Shot (2)
- Hunting is time consuming, will relay on snares, or make a bow or a sling for small game.

10. 550 paracord – 20m (5)
- fishing line gives more than twice as much cordage: 300m>160m (20m*(7 strands+1 shell))
- plus hooks for fishing, bird traps, fishing spear tip (get 3, anneal, straighten with LM, quench).
- The fishing line has a large plastic spool as a bonus.
- Tarps could be the source of thick cordage as well if needed.

13. Canteen/Water bottle (3)
- the pot provided is good, has larger volume, and pan lid;
- can make a bark/log canteen using LM, or rig the water transporting/storing pouch/pool from the second tarp.

14. Gill Net (4)
- too small, tide traps are way better. Can be made from the fishing line if absolutely necessary.

15. Bow & 6 Arrows (4)
- Can be made with wood and fishing line. But hunting is still seems ineffective there.

19. Bivy Bag (2)
- Good while you're in the process of making the stationary shelter, but a cocoon with similar or better properties can be rigged from the second tarp, which is more versatile as well.

20. Emergency Rations (3)
- Just eat plenty before you go (cheating? 10 items limit out of 20 fixed list is cheating too)... smile

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#276278 - 08/19/15 11:16 PM Re: The ALONE series [Re: Alex]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
This is more like would you choose for a sparsely equipped excursion in the woods rather than what I think of as "survival"- a situation that arises when you are faced with an unanticipated stay in a wild environment for an indeterminate period of time.

I think it would have been more interesting if your choices would have been constrained by weight - What would you take if you have no more than three pounds (or whatever) of gear...
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#276279 - 08/20/15 12:53 AM Re: The ALONE series [Re: hikermor]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Under the 3 pounds survival on Vancouver Island? That's easy: PLB, bic, and a full Glock 21 (if not naked and afraid) smile



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#276283 - 08/20/15 07:18 AM Re: The ALONE series [Re: Alex]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Originally Posted By: Alex
The list of 20 items they could choose 10 from is (number on the right is how many times it was claimed by Alone folks)
...
2. Regular Knife (9)
3. Large Knife (Khukuri)...


Is that an official list? I am asking because I checked again on the History Channel website and didn't see any distinction between "large" and "regular" knives. As far as I understand, those participants that decided to take a knife (9 out of 10) were allowed to pick pretty much any kind of design regardless of size. Most seemed to prefer somewhat smaller belt knives but Alan had a kukri and Lucas used a custom knife with a large, hefty blade.

As far as making your own hunting bow and arrows... It can be done but it is a pretty demanding process. It also requires proper bow wood, hopefully seasoned. Fishing line is not ideal for a bow string. And making arrows that fly true and hit hard is another challenge. Frankly, I don't think it's a realistic proposition for most people.

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#276288 - 08/20/15 05:02 PM Re: The ALONE series [Re: Tom_L]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
It's not official, just compiled from the BIOs. Check the Joe Robinet's pack - it states "Large Knife" vs just "Knife" for others. But you might be right about Khukuri being just a regular knife, and something like machete - a large one...
Update: In the Ep.1 at 19:40 Joe is using a simple mora like knife, though. Also his tarp looks different from Lucas one, called in his BIO "Ground sheet". So that's another candidate for item #20 then.

For the bow. I agree that with the fishing line and random wood it could be underpowered, line is stretching with time, and so on... However I don't think the game, possible to take there, could be larger than a rabbit. Anything larger most likely will engage with you in "close combat" by itself, so you could score a meal much easier than wandering in the woods with a bow if you got a heavy spear with body stopper and some courage:


Surely, even a simple bow or crossbow making requires specific knowhow, but it is doable. However, if you never made a serious one - it could be more beneficial just stick to what you are proficient with (i.e. make a sling, maybe an atlatl, or just a cross-throwie...). Anyhow, the location seem to have animals aware of hunters, so traps will be way more effective.


Edited by Alex (08/20/15 06:14 PM)
Edit Reason: Update on knife

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#276289 - 08/20/15 06:21 PM Re: The ALONE series [Re: Tom_L]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
If there are that many predators like cougar and wolves, then there must be plenty for them to feed on. In any case, building deadfalls and impalement snares for large predators isn't that complicated, and there was certainly plenty of material in the forest to do it with. Baiting was obviously effective, and cordage would only be minimally necessary. You could try to snare deer, and there are deer on Vancouver Island aplenty, but it would be much easier to get a bear using primitive trapping methods. With baiting, you wouldn't need to build a dozen either.

Also, tidal traps for fish makes lots of sense too.

It is legal to hunt black bear in Alaska with a 40 lb recurve. It is legal to hunt brown bear in Alaska with a 50 lb recurve. People do it. It can be done. It is not generally considered unethical. Shot placement is important, but that is true regardless of how powerful a bow you use. In a survival situation, I would prefer to set a trap than to hunt. Higher success, less risk, and less work.

No idea what rules the contestants were given, so maybe trapping big game was out. But they were breaking game rules anyways, and in a survival situation I wouldn't care about what hunting/fishing rules I might break trying to stay alive.

I am reminded of a statement I made to my wife some time ago about the show survivor; something to the effect that were I a contestant on an island with other competitors and playing for $1M, the producers would find all the others the morning of the second day with their throats cut, and me asking where my $1M was. Knowing what the rules are is important.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#276303 - 08/20/15 10:51 PM Re: The ALONE series [Re: benjammin]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
From what I've been reading bears in that region feed mostly on fish. Bear hunting with a 40 lb recurve... blush I'm sure it could be done. Even with DIY deadfalls Rambo style and whatnot - in theory. Doing it solo in unknown terrain sounds a little risky though so I wouldn't blame the contestants for not trying.

Historically, bear (and also boar) hunting in Europe was often done with a heavy lugged spear, but usually with a pack of trained hunting dogs and a number of well armed assistants for backup. It was considered the riskiest and manliest form of hunting, practiced more or less exclusively by the noble classes who were trained almost from birth in hand-to-hand combat and military skills. I don't think anyone on "Alone" had that kind of background.

Hunting with improvised weapons sounds pretty cool but it's not exactly easy. I've made a few bows in my time, some good enough for hunting. But it takes a lot of time and effort. Very easy to screw up, especially if you try to rush the process.

Making a bow that hits hard enough is one part of the challenge. Accuracy is an even bigger concern. It's remarkably difficult to make arrows reasonably matched in spine and weight without access to a good workshop and first-rate materials. Meaning that your DIY bushcraft arrows will be all over the place. Besides, even with good equipment and quality arrows serious accuracy with a traditional bow is hard to achieve unless you practice constantly. Many people have a hard time keeping their arrows within a pie plate sized target at 20 yards. Hardly good enough for small critters like rabbit or squirrel.

A good compound bow is a different story. I feel confident that I could take just about any game in the Northern hemisphere with my 70 lb Hoyt. I can shoot it pretty well and it hits like a laser with good carbon or FMJ arrows. With a slow 50 lb recurve at half the kinetic energy, not so much. Even less with a DIY bow and arrows hastily crafted out in the field. And I'm simply not proficient with a sling or atlatl (not that I haven't tried, it's just beyond my skills). I'm sure there are people out there far more adept with primitive weapons but for most of us it's not a particularly realistic option. YMMV...

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#276316 - 08/21/15 11:19 PM Re: The ALONE series [Re: Tom_L]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I think shot placement with archery is more important than kinetic energy, under nominal conditions, when hunting. However, hunting would be less desirable than trapping it seems. In any case, I would also prefer my compound bow to my recurves, even for hunting small game.

Using fish to bait the traps makes sense, as all the predators there and other scavengers would probably go after it pretty quick. I'd think with the right combination of DIY and bait you could harvest a lot of critters in fairly short order.

Not knowing what the rules were, I suspect there was probably some discussion about what could and could not be done to secure big game. Since the contestants were already breaking hunting and fishing rules, hard to say what they felt comfortable with. In a real survival situation, things would be quite different from what they did on the show.

Now that the season is over, I wonder where they will go next?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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