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#276111 - 08/07/15 04:16 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Pete]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1004
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
A large part of it is how much the particular drug costs. The drug that I take for blood pressure is very cheap. No problem getting the insurance to go for a three month supply. One of the ones I take for allergies is much higher. MD didn't have a bit of problem writing it for three months. Insurance would only dispense for 30 day supply unless I wanted to go through their procedures between them & the doctor's office.

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#276117 - 08/07/15 07:00 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 856
Loc: Southern California
I've got a mix of costs for important drugs. The cost ranges (no insurance) from $9.00 up to $1000+ per month. Some of them, I can consume at a reduced rate for a short period of time to build up a buffer supply. Others I cannot.

Given the unholy charley foxtrot that was my last refill request (I went through my 2 week emergency supply and was titrating off to avoid going cold turkey), a couple months extra supply is not a PAW measure, but basic insurance.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#276119 - 08/07/15 08:32 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
RNewcomb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Iowa
There was a discussion here at work the other day about what a diabetic would do in a total collapse situation.

Insulin apparently has a 90 day shelf life, and apparently making your own is pretty much impossible.

Anybody here ever put any idea's into this? How would a Type I diabetic survive this type of scenario?

As a group of Engineers, we basically came up with... They won't.

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#276120 - 08/07/15 11:54 PM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: RNewcomb]
JeffMc Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Northwest Florida
From a pharmacy viewpoint, insulin lasts quite a bit longer than 90 days from production, if kept reasonably cool. But the clock begins running once it's in use by the consumer, or unrefrigerated. Then it's about a month, IIRC. There are handy evaporative pouches (Frio brand, for one) to keep insulin cool while traveling, away from refrigeration, or in case of power outage. Nonetheless, in the case of a total collapse, lots of diabetics and others dependent on one thing or another would inevitably die, if none of the other potential causes of death in such an event didn't kill them first.

I have to also wonder how all the schizophrenics, severe depressives, others with various medical conditions, and drug addicts, who require medication not to maintain their lives, but to sustain their ability to function effectively, might fare in a total collapse. Darwin can be a harsh master.

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#276123 - 08/08/15 01:28 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: JeffMc]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1413
Loc: Cranbrook BC (Finally)
Originally Posted By: JeffMc

I have to also wonder how all the schizophrenics, severe depressives, others with various medical conditions, and drug addicts, who require medication not to maintain their lives, but to sustain their ability to function effectively, might fare in a total collapse. Darwin can be a harsh master.


Obviously you are not completely familiar with Darwin but instead attempt to bend his theories to support your views which only serves to derail this interesting topic and thread.

You may want to read this thead.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#276124 - 08/08/15 02:14 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2458
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Your insurance may vary; I'm able to get a refill three days prior to last month's refill date. I have been doing this for years and have managed to build up a supply. Something may happen and I have to raid my stash. In those times I was glad to have a reserve to raid.

Jeanette Isabelle


Edited by Jeanette_Isabelle (08/08/15 02:15 AM)
_________________________
“Trust me, this is not gonna end well!” — Pleakley, Lilo & Stitch

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#276125 - 08/08/15 02:52 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1441
I think in the total collapse scenario, you must account for the possibility that you will have to move in order to survive. Some people seem to assume total collapse means the disappearance of government and public services, with an occasional mob here and there. There could be invading troops, and your neighborhood could be a battleground. Or there could be some sort of long-term natural disaster. You can't just stay and homestead like it was 19th century America on the frontier. Look at Syria -- how are you going to farm a patch of land and be "self-reliant" when ISIS might come and cut off your head?

You have to prepare for the possibility that you have move, possibly across borders. In that case,

-- Learn some foreign languages. If you can't communicate, you stand at a great disadvantage!

-- Travel and scout out potential countries to run to. Get to know their culture, law, and system. Make some friends there.

-- Keep your travel documents in shape.

-- However, be ready to sneak into another country without the proper documents or visas if that's the only path of survival. I'm not sure how to get expertise in human smuggling.

-- Money. Be ready for the collapse of your country's currency system. Don't count on the banking system to come through. You may not be able to access your millions in the numbered Swiss banking account if you are forced to Ogalaland.

What else?

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#276128 - 08/08/15 03:49 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
I think we should all MOVE TO GREECE and put these plans into action. I WANNA see how they work out!

There have been some great ideas here. But you know how "reality bites". The unfolding social crisis in Greece is a perfect way to see the real thing.

Pete

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#276130 - 08/08/15 07:46 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: JeffMc]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2757
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: JeffMc
Nonetheless, in the case of a total collapse, lots of diabetics and others dependent on one thing or another would inevitably die, if none of the other potential causes of death in such an event didn't kill them first.



One of the best diabetes clinics in the entire world has basically "cured" even very advanced cases with just diet. The cure? You eat virtually no carbohydrates. This isn't some quack either but a respected doctor and scientist. Do you know the amount of carbs needed per day? Zero. The human body can manufacture everything it needs to run out of fats and proteins (obviously salt, vitamins and minerals are required as well).

In some kind of protracted crises where insulin isn't available diet is going to be the only option. But since most diabetes is cased by eating the SAD not having that "diet" may save your life anyways.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#276131 - 08/08/15 11:36 AM Re: A Total Collapse [Re: RNewcomb]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 450
Loc: Somerset UK
Originally Posted By: RNewcomb
There was a discussion here at work the other day about what a diabetic would do in a total collapse situation.
Insulin apparently has a 90 day shelf life, and apparently making your own is pretty much impossible.
Anybody here ever put any idea's into this? How would a Type I diabetic survive this type of scenario?
As a group of Engineers, we basically came up with... They won't.


As others have posted, insulin keeps for a lot longer than 90 days if fresh to start with and kept cold.
Insulin must be kept cold but never frozen.

Here is an idea for prolonged storage of insulin, that will reliably keep it cool for a long time without any risk of freezing.
Obtain a very large, well insulated, top opening container. A dead chest freezer sounds good.
Buy an ice maker as used in bars for the bulk production of ice cubes.
Fill the dead freezer about half full of ice cubes.
Place the insulin in an insulated picnic cooler atop the ice, add more ice around the picnic cooler until the freezer is nearly full.
Whilst times are normal, top up the ice regularly.

When disaster occurs and the power goes off, it will take a long time for all that ice to melt. The insulin will be maintained at very close to freezing point but never actually frozen.

Better still would a home made insulated box with walls consisting of at least a foot of closed cell rigid foam, and a tight fitting lid.
Bigger is better, since heat gain is proportional to the surface area, whilst the amount of heat needed to melt the contained ice is in proportion to the volume of the ice.

A drain to remove melt water is needed, preferably fitted with a "U" trap to prevent loss of cold air.

It should be possible to make more ice from time to time by limited running of a generator, or by powering the icemaker from a large RE system. In winter of course naturally occurring ice can be harvested in many places.

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