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#274742 - 04/02/15 10:39 AM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: DrGiesbrec]
Quietly_Learning Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
Originally Posted By: DrGiesbrec
A severely hypothermic victim will become unconscious as a result of significant brain cooling; this is not going to sleep and is an inevitable progression towards death. However, the idea that a cold, or mildly hypothermic victim will die because they go to sleep and as a result, just drift off into oblivion is not likely. Anyone who has tried to sleep when they are cold knows that it is very difficult to sleep as they shiver in agony. I general, if you are able to go to sleep (which is generally good for you as you need rest), you will wake up due to discomfort long before you actually become hypothermic. Bottom line, if you can sleep great! You will not miss all the warnings and defences, and wake up dead.
For further info check out our fee downloadable educational files at
www.beyondcoldwaterbootcamp.com
Gordon Giesbrecht, Ph.D. (a.k.a. Professor Popsicle)
University of Manitoba



Thank you Glock-A-Roo for pulling this out of cold storage.

Dr. Giesbrecht gave some expert information and looking at his videos and documents it is worth the time to review it to know what to do both if you're hypothermic or caring for someone else who is.

This site has such great information. I thank you all for your time sharing your knowledge.

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#274821 - 04/10/15 09:21 PM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Survival Training is full of Myth's like "Don't Eat Snow" to "Don't Sleep in the Cold". I have often wondered at how bad our teaching was/could be without proper research. Modern Medical & Survival Research has changed may of our methods over the last 40 years if you look up the what and why, often advice has changed radically, once the laws of physics and physiology have been applied to the problem, instead of "Assumptions".
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#274838 - 04/12/15 08:11 AM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: BruceZed]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: BruceZed
Survival Training is full of Myth's like "Don't Eat Snow"
What is the myth?

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#274841 - 04/12/15 10:02 AM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
Herman30 Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Finland
As I know it; one should not eat snow because it is cold and therefore lowers your body core temperature when melting in your stomach. For an allready hypothermal person it makes hypothermia even worse.

But this is not a myth, itīs a sientific fact.
The heat that melts snow in stomach is drawn from the body.


Edited by Herman30 (04/12/15 10:04 AM)

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#274846 - 04/12/15 06:58 PM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: Herman30]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
In theory, yes.

In practice, not so much. Human physiology offers a direct defence against ingesting too much freezing material too quickly. It's commonly called "ice cream headache."

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#274847 - 04/12/15 07:02 PM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: Herman30]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Herman30
As I know it; one should not eat snow because it is cold and therefore lowers your body core temperature when melting in your stomach. For an allready hypothermal person it makes hypothermia even worse.

But this is not a myth, itīs a sientific fact.
The heat that melts snow in stomach is drawn from the body.


Normally, this suits me just fine (outside populated / popular recreation areas, of course -- I'm not fond of drinking dog poo or skiing wax). As long as I am moving about I usually have plenty of surplus heat which needs to be removed, one way or the other. Using a few calories of surplus body heat to add a bit of water in my tummy seems like a brilliant idea to me. But a mouthfull of snow doesn't have many grams of water, so this practice is just a fraction of my water consumption. And I stop eating snow when activity stops or if I start feeling cold.

On my last trip I re-learned old army tricks from my army officer friend:
  • A water bottle has a wide mouth, making refilling with snow easier
  • You start re-filling with snow immediately after your first sip, always stuffing it full (so it always contains water with snow in it, which will melt quicly, not "wet snow", which melts slowly)
  • in sub-freezing temperatures you wear the water bottle on your body, under your outer layer of clothing


Now the water-bottle-on-your-body trick isn't really nescessary for your average day hike unless it is REALLY cold. A water bottle doesn't freeze for many, many hours if it's inside your backpack, among your extra clothes and whatnot. But the practice is sound, and something I'm happy to adapt for trips to remote areas.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (04/12/15 07:02 PM)

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#274850 - 04/12/15 09:40 PM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear
Originally Posted By: BruceZed
Survival Training is full of Myth's like "Don't Eat Snow"
What is the myth?


Yes Snow is Colder that Tea or Hot Water, but the Calories lost are not relevant compared to how fast you will become "Combat Ineffective" from Dehydration. Inuit eat snow all the time as in there cold dry environment, they need water and the only form they have is snow.

I figure the "Don't Eat Snow" Myth came from individuals actually eating snow blocks and being told don't eat snow you will get chapped lips, which can be debilitating in the wilderness over the long-term. Then they were told to act like an Inuit and ball up a small ball of snow and suck on it. This way you cannot cool your core body temperature. Think 7/11 and Slurpee's, anyone ever die of Slurpee headache, no way, its gods way of telling you to slow down sucking on the snow lump/Slurpee. Yes Hot tea will be better and over time you will use more calories than a hot liquid, but you will become Dehydration far faster than you will lose calories.

What I think happened over time is we shortened the sentence and then over time forgot what was actually said and simply made assumptions. i have a nice case study of a guy who sucked on snow lumps for 43 days and lived to be rescued in the Himalayas. If I am thirsty and have no water I suck on a snow lump, dehydration will kill you way faster than a little low level calorie loss.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#274855 - 04/13/15 06:50 AM Re: "falling asleep in cold weather = death"? really? [Re: BruceZed]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
I've seen someone claim that your body would consume more water burning those calories required to melt snow than you'd recieve from same snow. This, I believe, is the source behind the revival of "don't eat snow"- myth.

I am sceptical. And stories about people surviving for days and weeks with no liquid water present, only snow, makes me think that this is bogus.

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